Friday Feminist Fuck You: Seth Rogen

The R-rated trailer:

Approximate transcript after the jump.

This week we offer a big Friday feminist fuck you to Seth Rogen and the crew behind Observe and Report.
Here at feministing, as you all know, we’re not exactly uptight–as the tired old feminist stereotype goes. We curse a lot. Okay, a lot. We love ourselves really dirty jokes. Heck, we’ve thrown up graphic clips from Wanda Sykes. There’s not much that’s off limits.
But Mr. Broman Comedy Dude of the moment, Seth Rogen, is seriously misguided if he thinks women are going to sit happily and giggle at the date rape scene in his new movie. Essentially Anna Faris’ character gets horrifically drunk, throws up, and passes out in a bed. As Seth Rogen’s character is basically grinding away, he suddenly pauses and appears to have a crisis of conscious, soothed immediately by Anna Faris’ character coming to and grumbling, “Why’d you stop motherfucker?”
It’s not funny Seth. First of all, one out of six women in this country is sexually assaulted in her lifetime. Which means a whole lot of your bromen are confused about what consensual sex is. Is the laugh you get worth making them even more confused? Basically giving them permission from one of the most adored dudes of the moment to not take rape seriously? Yeah, we didn’t think so.
Come correct Seth. Put out a statement apologizing for your stupid humor and start working to prevent sexual assault instead of making light of it. Otherwise 52% of the movie-watching population just might stay at home when your movies hit the theaters.
A big Friday feminist fuck you to Seth Rogen and crew. Peace.

Join the Conversation

  • John H.

    I think it’s dangerous to judge an actor’s lifestyle by the roles he or she chooses. If you always did that, it would be hard to believe that actors like Sean Penn, Josh Brolin and Terrence Howard–who’ve starred in socially progressive movies like Milk, I Am Sam, and Crash–are in fact convicted spousal abusers.

  • imbroglio

    I posted about this last night in the community forum, after reading several takes on the movie (including the one I included in the post). Here’s the thing, dormouse, that makes this such a unmitigated fail-no matter what the “setup” to this particular scene is, the inescapable fact of the matter is that the writers (and by proxy, the actors) have made light of a problem of massive proportions.
    The worst of it? The target demographic of this movie.
    Having two boys (one of whom is almost 16, and on the cusp of sexual awakening, and the other, a tween who absorbs every bit of “comedic” input like a goddamn sponge and can recite, verbatim, pretty much every stand up act he has been allowed to view-but still forget his lunch/homework/arse on a daily basis) I can say with some authority this is exactly the type of movie that they and their peers are sucked in by. Do I let them see it? HELL NO, and they get a steady dose of feminist penicillin to boot-we do what we can.
    But, goddamn it is so hard to fight against the constant assault of fucking American Apparel ads, douche commercials,Disney channel produced, mass consumption sexist crap and the never ending barrage of stereotypical bullshit that we, as adults, may be able to shrug off, but kids still trying to figure out what the hell goes where in their lives…aren’t necessarily able to do as easily.
    This is the audience that pays to see this movie, and absorbs and internalizes the message. And that is simply goddamn irresponsible, period.

  • Pantheon

    That’s a possibility. I recently watched Choke, which is about sex addicts and all sorts of messed up things (although there are no non-consensual sex scenes as far as I recall). The thing is that movie was advertised as a dark twisted comedy, similar to Fight Club, and I knew that going in. This one appears to be filmed in the same style as something like Knocked Up, and advertised in a similar way. I think I’ve noticed a trend of Seth Rogan’s movies getting more and more offensive– I thought Knocked Up was pretty funny, but I couldn’t stand most of Superbad. So far this movie just seems like another one in that line, but worse. But its possible they are just advertising it really really badly.

  • jjgirl23


  • Steph


  • Mariella

    Implied consent?? Are you kidding me?
    I don’t know about the US, but in Canada “implied consent” is NOT a defense for sexual assault. It is the responsibility of the person initiating the act to get POSITIVE CONSENT. If that’s not the law in the US it sure as hell should be.
    Why did she say keep going? Well for one reason, because the movie is sexist and rape supportive.
    If it happened in real life? Maybe b/c she’s drunk and confused and doesn’t know how to respond – when you’re passed out and wake up to something happening, your reaction could be pretty much anything b/c it’s a shocking, confusing thing to happen.
    Or, maybe b/c she’s ok with it, but that would make the dude LUCKY AS HELL because doing what he did without her express consent IS sexual assault. So it’s just lucky as hell that he didn’t traumatize her for life.

  • wyo_cowgirl

    The question of placing this date rape scene in the broader context of the film should focus more on what happens AFTER this scene than what come BEFORE. I really don’t think it’s arguable that what is happening is rape. She is clearly sick drunk and unable to give consent by any legal or moral definition. He does not appear to be anywhere near that inebriated. He’s raping her, and it appears to be played for a laugh.
    The only way this could be justified using the “black comedy” argument introduced by some commenters is if the rest of the film somehow makes it ABUNDANTLY clear that this character and his actions are reprehensible and outside the social norm. Judging solely from the available information (trailer, blog posts, and interview clips) this doesn’t seem to be the case.
    The point about misleading marketing may be a good one–we’d all have to see the film to know for sure–but the fact that it can be marketed this way at all, and the only public outcry seems to be here in the feminist blogosphere, is a good indicator of just how fucked up we are when it comes to issues of rape and consent.
    And I see no problem directing this “fuck you” to Seth Rogen. As the star, he becomes the public face of the movie. When he does interviews, it is he who takes responsibility for commenting on the content of the film. And the fact that apparently neither he, nor Anna Faris, nor anyone else involved with the film has made a public statement that UNEQUIVOCALLY condemns what we see happening in this scene is deplorable.
    If they wished, the film’s producers, stars, etc. could use this content as a vehicle to make a public statement AGAINST this type of behavior. But they have not done so. And when they don’t, they play right into the “rape culture” norms that lead to ridiculous assault statistics and horrific consequences for the victims/survivors of such attacks. At the very least, this laissez-faire attitude is grossly insensitive, and offensive, to everyone in the audience who has been affected by sexual violence. And we all know what kind of a number that is.
    Basically, this is a “fuck you” I’m more than willing to get behind.

  • drydock

    The reviewer at the SF Chronicle thought the date rape scene was hilarious and calls Faris’s character a “a dumb, amoral, slut”.
    Check out the review here:

  • nightingale

    I think it’s important to note that this isn’t the only movie or scene that he’s done that shows a total lack of respect for women. This isn’t a one-off thing, or a case of misinterpretation on anyone’s part, or just an actor needing a paycheck, pretty much his entire filmography has been sexist in some way.

  • Jessica Lee

    I have no desire to see this film, simply because the commercials aren’t appealing, but I think the anger towards Rogen is misplaced. As someone previously stated, the “Fuck You” should go out to the marketing of this movie, since it is marketed as a light-hearted “bro” movie, when the humor is in fact black.
    Also, if we’re relying on Seth Rogen to be the bastion of morality, something isn’t right. I myself love Seth Rogen, but I have yet to find reason to hate him. he’s never made himself out to be a genius, and people who see his films aren’t necessarily looking for a progressive political message. I say leave Seth Rogen alone, because he’s the least of our worries. I’m a feminist, but the fact that I like to let loose and watch Seth Rogen films shouldn’t negate that fact.

  • thetestosteronewars

    I think you’ve got it exactly right. I feel a lot of the comments here and in the video are confusing Seth Rogan, the likeable actor, with the character he plays in the movie.
    If Seth Rogan, the actor and generally likeable person, makes light of raping women who are unable to provide consent, it may perpetuate masculine norms that encourage or condone sexual assault, and should be condemned. Some of the interview quotes posted here (and I don’t know the full context of those quotes) seem to indicate he has, and he should be called out for it.
    However, when a deeply disturbed character he plays in a movie does so, I don’t think you can make the same case. His character is a bad person doing a bad thing. He’s not likeable, and not likely to influence anyone (who isn’t themselves disturbed).
    Given the subtle racism and sexism often raged about on this site, I’m often surprised when commenters don’t give the audience any credit to understand the context of what’s being presented.
    The first step in being influenced by media depictions is to like and identify with the character. If you like and identify with an ignorant, power abusing mall cop who scares and takes advantage of a woman, you’re already beyond hope.

  • emrez49

    EXACTLY. There is no such thing as “implied” consent. The way I explain consent to people is that consent isn’t the absence of no, but rather the presence of yes. Not saying no isn’t enough. There are plenty of reasons why someone is being assaulted won’t say no (gee, I don’t know, fear for their safety/life).

  • jjgirl23

    He does it in his interviews too. He joked that his weight loss was from bulimia, and it was awesome and he recommended it. (Obv. men can have it too, but EDs are usually a women’s issue). Another interview, he said people who gave his movies bad reviews were bitchy women. I could go on for days with examples, but just go to youtube and search “seth rogen interview”. Nice guy.

  • sly

    When she says, “Why are you stopping motherfucker?” she’s giving consent?In which case its not date rape. I don’t see the problem, what am I missing here?
    Also, the movie is comedic because this is precisely what you’re NOT supposed to do; it portrays the guys as Keystone Kops. I think that’s pretty clear.

  • Pantheon

    There are a couple problems– she doesn’t appear to give consent before he starts, and even once she does, she is clearly way too wasted to have any idea what’s going on. If he were equally wasted I’d probably give him a pass, but he’s sober enough to notice that she is puking on herself without noticing it and can’t stand up.
    The other problem is that the writers would choose to give her that line. Its basically saying that its ok to have sex with an unconscious woman because if she got drunk she probably wanted sex anyway. He’s incredibly lucky that she reacted like that and not in a more traumatized way. I wonder how she reacts the next morning in the movie? Its unlikely she’ll even remember the sex given her level of intoxication.

  • AnatomyFightSong

    Have you ever seen Freaks and Geeks? I had high hopes for Seth Rogen/Judd Apatow and the rest of that crew — not only was it incredibly funny and touching, it had great messages.
    There was one storyline where Seth Rogen’s character, Ken, was dating a girl who discloses to him that she’s intersex. Ken is kind of freaked out initially, but once he thinks about it, he realizes it doesn’t matter and he cares about her for who she is. They handled it in a way that was really honest, funny, and compassionate — they even got a GLAAD media award for the episode. This was NBC primetime, mind you!
    Here’s a more thorough description in case you’re interested:

  • Nightmare Nikki

    I am taking a class which focuses on gender issues within the media, with a heavy focus on film. This week we screened Silence of the Lambs to compliment some critiques and deconstructions of the Horror/Slasher genres. Unlike popular belief, these writers point out that viewers hardly identify with the killer. For the most part, these films are targeted to young adolescent boys, so obviously there would be some danger with these young men identifying with a murderous fiend who frequently targets women. Instead, the audience tends to identify with the “final girl” (a term coined by Carol Clover) who ends up defeating the monster/villain. There is a whole breakdown of the formula that sometimes puts the villain and final girl as complimentary figures, and also uses Fruedian analysis on either character. The point I am trying to make, however, is that in this violent genre, there is little to fear for young, impressionable, male spectators.
    I will consider the problematic nature of this film, but what I am more concerned about is the fact that this critique of Rogan’s film is highly oversimplified. From all of the press coverage I’ve seen, including the trailer and a “Reel Comedy” episode about it on Comedy Central, I would argue that Rogan and Faris are conscious of their characters’ faults. They admit to how dysfunctional and unstable these characters are. Rogan makes note that his character is a racist, incompetent, stalker. Faris also comments that her character has serious mental health and addiction issues. However, they are also conscious that this film is intended to be a Black Comedy. While there is no evidence to support this, I wouldn’t be surprised if Rogan’s character gets in trouble for the “rape” later in the game at least in some form. He’s clearly getting in trouble in other areas. If doesn’t receive his comeuppance for the rape, then the film will more than likely present the situation for what it is, and not make light of the situation because it was “lol date rape” but because these characters are SO fucked up they can’t even recognize date rape when they commit it/are the victim. And that is the joke here, in my opinion. These characters want to believe so badly that they are the ones in control of everything and that everything is going well, when in reality everything is fucked up.
    I intend on seeing this, but probably not until it hits dollar theaters. I still need to see I Love You, Man.
    All that said, rape is not funny and not okay. The situation of this particular offense, however, changes things in my opinion.

  • Pantheon

    Freaks and Geeks had such sweet underlying messages. I really liked it. But since then their stuff has gotten progressively more offensive. I don’t know if its that they actually think that way or they think it sells, but after Superbad its going to take a lot to get me to see another one of his movies.

  • Pantheon

    Didn’t he also do Undeclared? I liked that.

  • katemoore

    It’s a Seth Rogen film. A good portion of the target audience is going to miss any “black comedy” element. Their reaction? More along of the lines of “WHOA! BRO, that is SICK, DUDE!”
    I hate the fratboy-izing of America.

  • Fitz

    Well it depends on whether or not the protagonist is actually a protagonist. I haven’t seen the movie yet, but from a few interviews I’ve seen online it seems pretty clear that the character in this movie is not a standard protagonist, and is described by Seth Rogen as a “Super Antihero.”

  • Okra

    “people who see his films aren’t necessarily looking for a progressive political message.”
    Question: which audience benefits more from exposure to funny,coool movies that also promote progressive political messages?
    Feminist activists, Asian-American studies professors, and members of the Immigrant Rights Student Association?
    Heterosexual, cisgendered, middle-class, European-ancestry, non-disabled, average body weight teens and members of fraternities/sororities?
    The former’s bread and butter is decontructing the politics of the every day, in picking apart social attitudes and the harm they do.
    The latter have had heterosexist, cisgendered, upwardly mobile, European hegemony served up to them every day since birth, and have the cornucopia of Hollywood movies to pleasure and delight them in “funny” versions of this hegemony.
    We KNOW they don’t go to Seth Rogen movies to find a progressive political message.
    The point is, they, more than perhaps anybody, need to have a [entertaining, enjoyable] movie offer them one.

  • Jessica Lee

    So since I’m of European ancestry, that automatically means that I think I’m superior to all races and that I can’t possibly find something to be racist or sexist?

  • wyo_cowgirl

    So, I followed the link drydock (above) provided to the San Francisco Chronicle review of this film.
    Then I followed another link to the New York Times review.
    These two reviews pretty handily delineate two opposing “readings” of this film. Both points of view sound quite similar to some of what I think I’m hearing from Feministing commenters above. (Basically, legitimate black comedy vs. callous and offensive.) So without a doubt–as is the case with any piece of “art” or media–what any individual viewer takes away from the date rape scene, and the movie as a whole, is going to hinge largely on one’s personal experience and value system.
    (A side note: Notice the SF Chronicle reviewer’s cavalier use of the word “slut” to describe Faris’s character. And no, I don’t think he’s using it ironically, as a consciously negative cultural reference. If that isn’t an indicator of where he’s coming from, I don’t know what is.)
    Unfortunately, the fact that this stuff does seem to sell so well indicates that unlike most of us at Feministing, the bulk of its audience is not approaching it critically. Because when you look at the content the way the NY times reviewer does, it loses significant entertainment value.
    So, I’m gonna have to reiterate something I said in my earlier comment. The people making and promoting this film have a media platform at their disposal. They can influence the way in which their work is viewed. And so far, they have not done a good job of using this platform to promote a nuanced or critical viewpoint. Indeed, why would they if that might make it more difficult to market to the masses?
    Seth Rogen and all the rest are making several choices here. They are choosing to participate in creating and marketing this material. They’re choosing to ignore the broader cultural implications. They’re choosing the laugh and the almighty dollar over an opportunity to promote positive social change.
    Yeah, yeah, they’re entertainers, they’re not obligated to speak for everyone or promote anything other than themselves, I get that. But many of us here seem to believe in using our social and professional “platforms”, such as they are, to reinforce and promote a value system built around equality and “do no harm.” The people who made this movie are making a very different choice. We have every right–and some would say, a responsibility–to call them on this.

  • Random70435

    His character is a bad person doing a bad thing. He’s not likeable, and not likely to influence anyone (who isn’t themselves disturbed).
    Yes, but his character, from what I’ve seen in the trailers, is the hero. In the movie, this is not seen as rape–or if it is, it’s not seen as bad (which is, IMO, worse). In fact, Rogan’s character is set up as saving Faris’ character from being sexually assaulted. That’s what’s fucked up about this–he’s supposed to be seen as likable and what he does isn’t portrayed as wrong. If this weren’t the case, I’m not sure how this could be a comedy.

  • philogelos

    I believe this kind of attitude runs contrary to the goal of trying to get people to see feminist critiques in a positive light.
    For one thing, your claim to have looked at all “available information” is patently false. The movie is about how Rogan’s character is the son of an alcoholic who is trying to fulfill his sick protector-fantasies in violent ways, even hindering the police investigation into a flasher at the mall because he’s trying to be the one who “saves” Faris’s character.
    In other words, the movie’s POINT is that even good-intentioned paternalistic impulses can be counter-productive, and it showcases his behavior in not at all a “oh chuckle, what a wacky but lovable bro” kind of light.
    Ironically enough, that same (good) message would fit very aptly to the attitude you are taking vis-a-vis this movie.
    By issuing an uninformed “Fuck You!” (always an interesting choice of terms when responding to someone being insensitive to sexual violence) at the male actor in this scene (who becomes instantly the most responsible party for this scene…why? Because he’s the most visible male?), you are encouraging the misperception that feminism is knee-jerkingly strident. The problem is not that people uninterested in feminism have not encountered the message, but rather that they have been fed the notion that making passionate arguments is somehow passe, and the big issues with regards to this have been “solved.”
    So by flipping out about your (incorrect) perceptions about the potential message a dark comedy movie might transmit…you are really not going to be helping change anyone’s minds.

  • lulibear

    as one of those “1 in 6″, i just think there are much more important problems out there than a tasteless scene in a seth rogan movie. seth rogan movies don’t affect rape – people do, policies do, shitty parenting does. but an offensive movie? really? this is how you want to be taken seriously?

  • sarah

    God that sounds exhausting.

  • Okra

    Say what?
    Let me break it down as simply as I can:
    1. Society is set up by and for a specific Default.
    2. People who exist within the Default have no way of automatically knowing this or being able to make sense of this in relation to those who fall outside the default. It is _hard work_ being able to step outside of one’s own privilege and see it for what it is. It is LEARNED hard work, and few people can actively come to these conclusions without outside stimuli.
    3. People–of ALL ethnicities; all identities– who have made a career or life study out of examining social privilege will not get TONS of benefit out of seeing a movie that has a positive, humanist, progressive message. They’ll enjoy it, to be sure, but it’s not telling them anything radically different to what they already know or do.
    4. By contrast, people who exist squarely within the Default and whom society has fed a steady diet of Default-oriented media, news, literature, visual stimuli, etc., likely WILL benefit greatly from a movie that propogates a progressive social message. If it’s one of the only times a mainstream movie has done this, it may be a powerful “a-ha” moment for some of them. It will cause them to step outside of the Default, look around, and notice that big Default house that they’ve been living in all along.
    So, I say it again:
    People who are either non-Defaults (women, ethnic minorities, fat people, transpeople) OR (OR, OR, ORRRRRRR–it’s a big one) who have trained themselves to notice their own Default privilege and the messed up way society privileges a certain few have LESS need to sit through a pleasant and progressive movie than do people who are both members of the Default majority AND who have never actively examined privilege and power and the way they work in society.
    Now, tell me again how exactly this translates to “European people are sexist and racist.”
    And while you’re at it, could you tell me why, out of all the list of identities I put above, you zeroed in only on “European”?

  • Lexicon

    You really think that how mainstream culture views and presents rape doesn’t affect rape?

  • Starmachinist

    Exactly my point.

  • Mariella

    I’m really confused… is the redeeming thing supposed to be that she seems to wake up and like it? cuz that’s not redeeming… that’s worse… perpetuating the idea that rape is ok if the victim “likes it”

  • wyo_cowgirl

    First off, you are using the word “all” before “available information”–you’ll notice I didn’t. I was referencing the material I’d seen so far, sort of the way everyone has been doing on this thread.
    Second, as far as the whole “black comedy” argument goes . .. .I think my comment below contrasting the San Francisco Chronicle and New York Times reviews addresses that pretty clearly. Yes, it can be read as black comedy. But that isn’t the only way to read it. And the people marketing this stuff, including Seth Rogen, are making a pretty distinct statement. They do not seem to be emphasizing the “black” aspect of it–they’re focusing on the plain old “comedy” part. Some of see this as irresponsible, and we’re using this forum to express that.
    The point here isn’t really how many minds I myself change. You’re right that there are definitely better ways to go about that, and if my comments are truly coming across as “knee-jerk” and “strident”, then I should probably check my tone. But none of this negates the fact that those affiliated with this film already have a pretty massive forum to change some minds or whatever else they want to do . . . and they’re not doing it. They’re perpetuating a very problematic culture.
    When they change their tune, I’ll change mine. If you have a good example of someone involved in the film making a socially conscious statement about its implications, I’d love to see it.

  • Peter

    Interesting comment, N.N.
    It made me go to the clip again. And this time — aside from appreciating Faris’s killer delivery of her “motherfucker” line — you helped me to notice Rogan’s follow-up.
    Specifically, Ronnie shifts from moans of “Brandi! Oh God, Brandi!” to a reflexive, “I’m sorry! Oh God, I’m sorry!” I think that says a lot about the character (about many Rogan characters, in fact). And I think it resonates with your overall reading.

  • sck555

    two people get blackout drunk and then fuck and you see it as a man taking advantage of a drunk woman? I saw two idiots too drunk to know what the hell they were doing. A pox on both of them. Equal opportunity stupidity is what I saw. Fuck Seth Rogen indeed, but fuck him twice.

  • Mollie

    You are being clever, right?


    Not to mention the fact that if a person is so drunk that she is passed out AND vomiting at the same time, she could aspirate her vomit and choke to death (or end up brain dead and in a coma for the rest of her life!)
    Rape – and reckless endangerment – and possibly murder?
    Is it really worth it, guys?
    So, “bro-men”, if you’re with a lady who’s passed out drunk, instead of becoming a date rapist, act like a decent human being, roll her over on her left side (“the recovery position”) so she doesn’t choke on her own vomit and put your penis back in your pants!
    Save the sex for next time – with a woman who’s conscious and responsive!
    Cause remember – even if she never calls the cops on you, you’ll still be a rapist for the rest of your life!

  • jaja

    how silly. if being drunk is thought to take away one’s ability to give consent, it would be a perfect defense to DWI. Society (folks that have been drunk) and the law, all know that being drunk hardly makes one unable to consent. it merely affects your motor skills. which is why drunk drivers kill, but they are not excused for making the decision to drive in the first place.
    drunk or not this woman had the ability to consent and clearly did so here

  • jaja

    i guess thats you. i know plenty of people that have had sex without the word yes being uttered. a touch, a kiss, the arch of a neck communicates the desire to go further.

  • Fitz

    If there is no such thing as implied consent then I’m a serial rapist, and I’ve been raped a handful of times too… To just say it doesn’t exist is ridiculous

  • Fitz

    It’s a dark comedy, the trailers convey it pretty shittily, but Seth has described his character in interviews as a “super antihero.” He’s not meant to be anyone’s role model.

  • sly

    This is like the movie, “Dumb & Dumber”…you don’t have to emphasize the black aspect of the comedy, its plainly manifest.

  • jdv1984

    I don’t know about the US, but in Canada it’s very clearly written in the Criminal Code that a person who is intoxicated cannot consent to intercourse.
    And seriously? Motor skills only? Have you ever BEEN drunk??

  • sly

    Yeah two drunk people agree to have sex, and somehow the woman loses her agency & the guy becomes a criminal…That really strains logic, as well as feminist theory.
    Really, is this why we’re feminists? Because we really want to return to the days of patriarchy, where men were empowered to do what they thought was right for women??? Ah, Prince Charming rides to the rescue of Cinderella. That would require too much of men, and too little of us.

  • sly

    What’s the definition of Positive Consent? That would really help…Because if it means an explicit ‘Yes’ then I would have to say that happens like once in a hundred times. How many of you hear, “Can I fuck you?”, and respond with, “Yes, please fuck me”? I know I sure don’t. And from the conversations I’ve had with friends I’m sure I’m not the only one. About the only time I’ve ever said that is if I’m trying to accelerate some action.

  • jaja

    well in the US the criminal laws are state by state and there is not clear rule that says a drunk individual can’t consent. level of intoxication may be taken into account but drunk people can consent

  • pepper

    ew, didn’t mean to hit liked. take that +1 back.
    if a man starts to RAPE a woman whiles she asleep the action is RAPE not sex, not a mistake, RAPE.

  • pepper

    because all laws are moral? until recently in maryland a woman could not take back consent once intercourse started. does that make it rape in virginia but not in maryland? no. it is rape whether the law is well written or not.

  • Pierce

    “But a lot of men who rape don’t realize what they are doing is rape, they just feel they have conquered a holder of the sacred pussy, and think that they have a right to her body, so it can’t be rape.”
    This situation was clearly rape. But in many situations where the guy reasonably believes there’s consent but the girl is less enthusiastic and actually feels used, she might wonder if she was raped. In that situation, a hell of a lot of women don’t know they’re being “raped” either — e.g., the infamous Ms. Magazine survey that insisted one out of four college women are raped. But for the majority, even when they were told that what they described was rape (according to the surveyors’ constricted definiton of consent), the women refused to agree. If you accept the women’s characterizations of their own experiences, the number was more like one in 23.
    So it isn’t just the dudes thinking they own pussy (thanks so much for your colorful imagery and “empowered” language — for those who object to my sarcasm, f*ck you, too).

  • Fitz

    That’s certainly debateable… Why shouldn’t a woman be responsible for her actions if she is intoxicated?