Same old shit from PETA

via Renee comes the latest PETA nekkid-lady ad, featuring U.S. Olympic swimmer Amanda Beard:

The argument against this ad is not that Amanda Beard is being exploited. The issue here is that once again PETA is employing the tired old tactic of using a conventionally beautiful woman with conventionally “perfect” body, posed naked or nearly naked, to call for animal rights. But the thing I hate most about this particular PETA propaganda is that it takes what should be a message of empowerment, Love-Your-Body-style, and turns it into yet another affirmation of the female ideal. As Renee puts it, “It seems that they respect the rights of animals far more than they respect women. Consider that they don’t use images of male nudes, nor do they use images of women with varying body sizes.”
As you’ll recall, PETA has defended this advertising strategy with the weak response that “sex sells.” It’s an excuse I expect from Axe and Maxim, but not from a movement that is supposedly about justice.
Oh, and we’re not done yet! From Debbie at Bitch (via Vegans of Color) comes the horrifying news that PETA now wants to advertise on the border fence between the U.S. and Mexico.

While many view the contentious border fence as a government fiasco, an animal rights group sees a rare opportunity.
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals plans today to announce an unusual marketing pitch to the U.S. government: Rent us space on the fence for billboards warning illegal border crossers there is more to fear than the Border Patrol.
The billboards, in English and Spanish, would offer the caution: “If the Border Patrol Doesn’t Get You, the Chicken and Burgers Will — Go Vegan.

WTF?! I have no words. This is so fucked-up, even for PETA.

Join the Conversation

  • norbizness

    I for one am glad she’s no longer competitively swimming in full length sable coats; that’s just ridonkulous.

  • loveorperish

    I’m floored.
    These people are TWICE as f*cking crazy as I thought they were.

  • a.k.a UltraMagnus

    Do they honestly think that this, and those to be atrocious border ads will work? First of all, the wealthy people who wear fur aren’t going to look at an acceptably “hot” woman and think, “gee, what I’m doing is wrong and I should stop.” They’re going to think, “Hot chick, naked” and move the fuck on. And do they honestly think that poor immigrants, often coming from a “macho” culture of eating meat, are going to see one sign and change their hearts? You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. PETA has lost their fucking minds if they think any of this is effective.

  • petpluto

    ” “If the Border Patrol Doesn’t Get You, the Chicken and Burgers Will — Go Vegan.””
    I am offended and appalled. I am completely offalled.

  • laurajd

    I am an animal rights activist and against animal testing. However, there are a lot better organizations out there other than PETA. The other organizations do not use women’s nekkid bodies as a means of advertising themselves. I never saw the Humane society using such depictions. I cannot stand PETA and for what they do by creating women and their bodies to be exploited in their ads. Also, PETA does not have a good history of treating animals with dignity, either, which is SICK!
    Plus, when I see these ads all I think is wow…

  • wandergrrl

    Besides the opportunistic aspect of utilizing exploiting the already contentious matter of the border fences, this tactic seems to smack of elitism.
    (hmm, the strikethrough html doesn’t seem to be working in the preview pane)

  • cordi

    I guess I will put my leather wallet back into my leather purse and high-tail it in my leather heels out of the fur store… I’ll stop my sinful leather-using ways when the protesters stop their women-using ways. (Likewise, I boycott American Apparel.)
    *Also: What’s that shadow on her neck? Is it supposed to be her medal/a collar/etc?

  • loveorperish

    Ultra, you hit the nail on the head–POOR immigrants. These people are coming from dirt poor ass little towns, risking their lives and their freedom to sneak across the border to find better lives for themselves and/or their families. If they have chickens and cows to eat, they’re freaking happy.
    I’m mostly vegetarian for health reasons and I do think that there is a lot that needs to be done to improve the safety as well as the humanity of our food supply, but let’s get a little more real here. This lifestyle is VERY trendy and very geared towards those with the means and access.
    Yes, beans and tofu are cheap, but vegetables and fruits are not, nor are they readily available to everyone, and unless you know how to cook the stuff like a champ or have been feeding it to them since they were small, most kids aren’t going to eat the stuff. It’s a limousine liberal mentality, that their choices are going to change the world. No one cares.
    Those annoying rich people who think that wearing the fur of a dead animal is chic are still going to buy it, because they don’t feel that same connection or empathy you do. It’s just another object, another commodity to them.
    I know plenty of vegetarians and vegans who aren’t skinny bitches and all perfect according to this ideal–but PETA PROMOTES the ones that are as a way to lure folks in like “Look what you can have. You’ll be super hot…oh yeah, and healthy…and you’re making the world a BETTER PLACE by not ACTIVELY doing anything to alleviate the suffering of animals, but by passively waving your fist at the meat industry and eating tofu.”
    What a crock of lentils. I’m tired of the “sex sells” bit from Ingrid Newkirk. She’s a fucking moron. If she can’t find a better way to tell women to not eat meat b/c it’s processed in a way that can make you sick without trying to demean the female body (AND INTELLECT), then she needs to go back to her job as a dog catcher.
    Why aren’t there any naked pictures of HER in their ads?????

  • nightingale

    I’m even less comfortable in my own skin after seeing that ad. It’s 72 out but I just might don my leather coat so I stop feeling so flabby.

  • erinelizabeth

    If PETA doesn’t offend you with its sexism and racism, maybe this will:
    “PETA ad compares bus beheading to animal abuse”

  • Zaharat

    As a vegetarian who has wrestled with the way my fellow meat (and animal product) eschew-ers have represented the cause to the world at large, I can say plainly that I have nothing but contempt for PETA, the shortsighted sensationalists of the progressive movement.
    Many self-righteous but socially narrow vegans and vegetarians fail to acknowledge how much the choice to adopt this lifestyle is connected to privilege and access to enough food options to be able to create a healthy diet without the inclusion of meat or animal products. The insistence on sexually objectifying advertising is yet another example of this ignorance- making the consumption of animal products some sort of silo issue, as if it’s not at all connected to endemic social structures that are the fabric of Western society. That said, they’re my favorite people to argue with at parties- so easily out-maneuvered!

  • RiotGrrl

    They also like to stress that you can be sexy and lose weight with a vegetarian diet. They did this with the somewhat recent naked Alicia Silverstone ad. Maybe I should tell them that since I have become vegetarian a couple years ago (not for vanity purposes) I gained 15 pounds in a year. I actually feel healthier, but healthier doesn’t necessarily mean skinny. And I didn’t want the weight/put it on on purpose (pain to buy new clothes to fit new size).
    I wish there was another visible pro-veg group. I hate PETA and a lot of meat eaters associate vegetarianism with PETA, making them dislike the veg cause. To me they are like the Valerie Solanas of the veggies: puts people off from the actual issues.

  • JackonFire

    From my (limited) experience with PETA, a good two-thirds of the members are teetering on psychosis and self-loathing. Got Dignity?

  • JackonFire

    From my (limited) experience with PETA, a good two-thirds of the members are teetering on psychosis and self-loathing. Got Dignity?

  • stana

    I would like to see some more discussion about why vegetarianism/veganism is a lifestyle of privilege, instead of just taking it as a fact.
    Three things that I think are important:
    -Some religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism practice vegetarianism. Many, many people in India, one of the most poverty-stricken nations
    -Any livestock for human consumption is a huge waste of energy. The amount of crops that it takes to feed an animal for slaughter, has a lot more calories and nutrients than the meat that ultimately comes from the animal. If we gave up raising livestock and just ate the grain that we are feeding to these animals, there would be a lot more food to go around for everyone. So really, you could see our culture of meat-eating as a privileged lifestyle because of all the wasted food required to keep it going.
    -Yes, vegetables are expensive. Meat is a protein, not a vegetable, and there are cheaper proteins than meat, like beans and tofu.

  • ikkin

    I’m gonna go have some chicken and burgers for lunch. It’s gonna be great.

  • amart

    And the flag is the wrong direction!

  • feminismforever

    To add to what stana said, I think that, especially in this country, vegetarianism is a privileged choice. Many people in the USA can no longer access healthy cheap food. (Although that is hopefully changing with farmers markets accepting food stamps and such things).
    However, many/most people in the global south are and have been vegetarian for ions (and not just for religious reasons). Meat eating has not always been cheaper; it has become that way because people have lost the ability to produce their own food. That will only get worse with the patenting of food and huge corporations owning everything.
    Moreover, as stana noted, meat production is incredibly inefficient and is only adding to the global food shortage. We ship corn and grain from the global south to feed our cattle, and that is also an issue of privilege.
    Meat production is also the number 1 cause of global warming, which, like everything, has a greater impact on the poor.
    This is a feminist issue. It’s just too bad that PETA has to make it so anti-feminist. Urgh



  • Nebraska

    Hi all – just stopping in to do the same song and dance I’m forced to do every time someone brings up PETA.
    PETA may be the most mainstream and have the most money of all the AR groups, but they’re certainly a far cry from being the one that best represents the values and ideologies of veganism. I have only met a handful of vegetarians of vegans who are okay with PETA’s tactics (and I know a whole LOT of veg*ns). However, PETA doesn’t listen. I’ve written a few letters and gotten the same auto response ever time “blah blah blah we respect women blah blah blah it’s they’re choice”. Please turn your attention towards AR groups who are actually doing some good and aren’t so narrow minded such as Friends of Animals or Vegan Outreach.
    On vegetarianism being a privilege – that is just blatantly false. Fruits and vegetables are expensive and hard to come by? Again, simply not true. Pound for pound raw fruits and vegetables are less expensive than meat and easier to safely prepare and cook too. Maybe being a raw microbiotic vegan would be expensive and a privilege, but personally my food budget was cut in HALF when I stopped eating meat and dairy. Eating meat is the privilege. Why is it do you think that roughly half of the worlds population is vegetarian and the other half only eat meat sparingly? For the majority it’s not by choice, it’s because they can’t afford meat. As the economy in this country gets worse people are finding that they have to cut meat out of their food budgets because it’s just too expensive. See the last paragraph:

  • AnnaBella

    I’m certainly not the first in this thread to declare a total repulsion to PETA and their use of naked ladies to promote their cause. I remember seeing one stunt of theirs where they put a nearly-nude woman on her hands and knees in a cage in a public square for a few hours to demonstrate the living conditions of sows in factory farms. Honestly, why not use a sow?? The idea of using the exploitation of one group to supposedly liberate another is so ethically and intellectually bankrupt, it’s appalling.
    And yeah, the bus beheading thing? Here’s the proposed ad. Putting yourself in the same league as the Westboro Baptist Church in attempting to capitalise off a horrific tragedy is pretty a-hole-ish indeed.

  • feministinthecold

    I’m a vegetarian & animal lover, and I’m really proud that I convinced the only PETA member I know to stop contributing to PETA because of these gross ads. (However, a little perspective: didn’t Jessica Valenti and a number of the commenters on this website defend the cover of _Full Frontal Feminism_ on the same grounds–that a “fun” picture of a flat, white tummy (here, a naked white athlete) might hook young people who would otherwise be skeptical that feminism (or the equally hippie-ish vegetarianism) is for the frumpy?) What really pisses me off about PETA is the obsessive use of naked, *tortured-looking* women when they are supposed to be advancing a progressive, compassionate position. And I’m beginning to think that Newkirk and her buddies are really just a bunch of pervs trying to get their kicks since I don’t know that even strip clubs advertise with this much obsessive sexism. And it kills me that they are the most public anti-animal cruelty people!

  • Zaharat

    It’s important to note that the blanket of “privilege” is not only about access or cost, it’s about priorities , and an individual’s entire worldview. If your priority is feeding your family, period, the grand vision of global sustainability which is easily called upon by Western progressives is often not on your radar, even when as mentioned, you’re abstaining from meat for specific religious, cultural or economic reasons.
    I’ve done quite a bit of traveling involving homestays in various cultures, and I have made the decision to eat meat in situations where it would have been simply offensive, insensitive and culturally inappropriate for me to refuse what my host family is preparing for me. In other places, where I have had more freedom to practice my vegetarianism, it’s still locally viewed as an oddity pretty frequently, even if people are by necessity forced to reduce or eliminate their meat consumption. People are willing to listen to my rationale, but I am a passionate opponent of proselytizing a lifestyle which for me personally is dependent upon being able to skip merrily down the street and buy tofu at the local organic store, and since I don’t live in a place where meals are prepared communally it doesn’t cause any problems for my friends and family’s food preparation. In many developing countries, the priority is getting food on the table, period, as well as access to housing, healthcare, employment, and physical safety. There are a lot of platforms on which all this is connected and can be organized around in the developing world very easily, but the decision to not consume animal products, while entwined, is one about which Western vegetarian/vegan activists should be very careful in lecturing to the developing world (we were talking about PETA ads aimed at the Mexican border here). Particularly in from purely animal rights angle of PETA- if you don’t have rights yourself, you’re going to laugh at anyone who tells you that you should be denying yourself further for the sake of the livestock. There’s also a big difference in advocating vegetarianism vs. veganism in these situations- vegetarianism makes a lot more sense.

  • Mags

    Nebraska, where do you live? Do you live within walking distance of a major supermarket, or have a car to drive to one? Because in my neighborhood, until a couple of years ago, the only grocery options were convenience stores. The only produce those stores sold was a basket of fruit on the counter – some spotty apples, oranges and bananas, and that’s it.
    If you didn’t have a car, your only option was to get on the bus and do your shopping somewhere else – at least a couple of hours round-trip. Not that easy to find the time, especially if you work a lot, because it’s not like even the supermarkets you can get to on the bus are open 24 hours like the ones in the suburbs are. And once you’re there, sure, fresh meat is more expensive than an equivalent amount of fresh veggies – but that’s assuming you can afford either.
    And then, if you lived in one of the SRO efficiencies that dot the area, your only option for cooking any of that food was a microwave, or maybe a hot plate if you were willing to risk getting kicked out for creating a fire hazard. No freezer, or just a tiny one, so you’re not buying things that might go bad before you have a chance to eat them. Nor do you really have the time or the energy to worry about whether the food you are eating is vegetarian or not. So you buy the processed, canned, boxed, etc – the cheap stuff, not just the cheaper stuff.
    My neighborhood is lucky, in that we did finally get a real grocery store, and people do have more options (there are still plenty of people in the area who can’t afford fresh veggies or fresh meat, though). There are still plenty of places in the US that aren’t nearly so lucky.

  • feminismforever

    just have to say that there are some really fantastic and interesting comments on this post. If only PETA could see the world with that kind of nuance….

  • distractedbyshinyobjects

    Not a PETA fan, but just so you know, they *do* use men sometimes.
    This is an ad with Steve-O from Jackass.

  • Morgan La Fey

    Yet another vegetarian, animal-loving veterinary worker against PETA here. I honestly think they’re the Westboro Baptist Church of animal rights – the craziest, most vocal will give us all a bad name and they end up convincing no one to join the cause.

  • Halo

    I eat, I try not to harm other living creatures, I disagree with Peta being assholes, and feel that being Vegan isn’t something deserving of the blind hatred of otherwise progressive and intelligent human beings.
    I’m also amazed out how quickly people break out “privileged” when they don’t like something.

  • RiotGrrl

    My veggie food cost less than when I ate meat. I don’t have difficulty buying fresh produce because I have access to a co-op and farmers markets but this is not the reality of poor urban and rural areas (I lived in Texas for a short stint and there was less quality produce in that town).
    I don’t know why this happens, but there is a lack of fresh produce in the “poor” grocery stores/part of town. A lot of it is canned. An example would be the grocery outlets which have cheap meat but mostly canned fruits and veggies. And I’ve never seen tofu there even though tofu can be much cheaper than meat. A meat free diet can be a lot cheaper but only with access to resources and education with how to prepare the food/good nutrition. I think this is harder with American cuisine (meat and potatoes). In other countries that I have been to the normal cuisine is heavy in veggies, eggs, and noodles (Asia). There are numerous outdoor markets and carts with fruit. We simply don’t have that in the poor areas in the US. So a lot of it is cultural.

  • baddesignhurts

    this is FUBAR for so very many reasons, but i thought i’d throw in another one: is anyone else troubled by the flag-in-the-water imagery? i support the legal right to defile the flag and i understand how that can be a very potent symbol in protest and political discourse, but what the hell does the american flag do in this instance besides provide an overwrought backdrop to her being naked? the flag getting wet/being on the ground is considered a breach of etiquette (i’m from a five-generation military family, so i learned all that stuff), and i could understand PETA wanting to do so, ***if their protest had anything to do with the government***. they’re not calling for any law to be passed or trying to publicize governmental hypocrisy or to assert that their position is somehow patriotic. and with the ads-on-the-border-fence, it’s clear they’re not even targeting solely americans. so in my view, the flag imagery is misplaced and just like ms. beard’s naked body, really only good for cheap, tired shock value. i think that’s really disrespectful to the country. (again, i support the legal right to defile the flag, but i think that people should feel an ethical responsibility to use the symbol of flag desecration with care, in order to maintain the power of that protest, not as an essentially meaningless bit of graphic nonsense.)

  • Ryan

    Nor do you really have the time or the energy to worry about whether the food you are eating is vegetarian or not. So you buy the processed, canned, boxed, etc – the cheap stuff, not just the cheaper stuff.

    This is begging the question.
    If one accepts the premise that animals are just property that we can use as we please, then the argument can be made that it is elitist to avoid doing so, just as it is elitist to do or not do any number of other things with property. But all must first agree on that premise for this argument to have any weight.
    If one rejects the premise that animals are property, which means they have a moral right not to be made to suffer or die for trivial purposes such as flavor or convenience, then it is no more elitist to avoid eating animals and urge others not to than it is elitist to avoid eating one’s human neighbors simply because they’re nearby. Not having a large selection of foods doesn’t justify cannibalism.
    So you can’t even go to the elitism place until you’ve resolved the fundamental argument: whether animals have rights or not. If they do, elitism doesn’t fly as avoiding their consumption is morally obligatory. If they do not, it doesn’t really matter anyway, does it?

  • feminismforever

    But Ryan, that assumes – at least your final question – that animal rights is the only reason to avoid eating meat. There are numerous reasons.

  • Zaharat

    I haven’t heard anyone here rail against veganism/vegetarianism itself- this is about representation and responsibility of people who are attempting to promote the lifestyle. If you want someone else to change their lifestyle and values, it makes sense to accurately take into account what that person’s lifestyle and values actually ARE first.
    For many people, their reality doesn’t have a place in which to discuss whether or not animals have the right not to be consumed for food. It’s a cognitive disconnect, since human societies in peril usually have only the time to devote their resources to ensuring human life continues. When they’re fed and safe and enjoying a relationship with animals which is not purely resource-based, quite rightly people start to identify the need to advocate for these animals.
    If only this were about personal likes and dislikes, or who really cares about the rights of our animal companions. Thoughtful discussion of privilege scares a lot of people, as if their own identity is being negated just to acknowledge that they have access to different resources with which to participate in and assess the world. That doesn’t make it any less real, unfortunately.

  • Farhat

    I eat animals because I love and respect plants too much. Each potato uprooted is like a dagger through my heart.

  • Farhat

    If veganism is all that healthy why do all the vegans I know have a ton of supplements in their pantries and eat “fortified” break and stores that cater to vegans have aisles full of “supplements”.

  • Farhat

    ahh…that break should be bread above.

  • SarahMC

    PETA threads always turn into debates re: the ethics of using animal products, as though opposition to PETA = opposition to animal rights.
    A lot of us feminists are vegetarians or vegans and are VERY concerned with animal welfare. It’s very disingenuous for PETA-lovers to come here lecturing us, as I can assure you that many feminists are also animal-lovers who try to make ethical choices as consumers. It’s entirely possible to “get” and support the animal-rights cause without supporting PETA. I thought the post made our issues w/ PETA very clear.
    At the same time, it really bothers me when some PETA-haters resort to making jokes about enjoying burgers and wearing fur, as though making crass anti-animal jokes is a good way to stick it to PETA or something.

  • feminismforever

    SarahMC, I’m not sure who that’s aimed at, but I haven’t seen any PETA lovers on this thread. But I agree with you that feminists are generally ethical consumers. Just one reason that I love ‘em.

  • adminassistant

    Yeah, pretty much the LAST reason I’m going to convert to vegetarianism is because some naked lady told me to do so. And CERTAINLY NOT because she’s encouraging me to be skinnier.
    Shitty advertising aside, putting up signs on the border seems relatively colonialist to me. As in, Mexicans have no choice but to look at these things that insult their existence and culture day in and day out, therefore PETA is imposing a foreign belief system on them. I hope the govn’t sees how inflammatory this “campaign” could possibly be, and thoroughly stomps it.

  • ShelbyWoo

    SarahMC, I’m not sure who that’s aimed at, but I haven’t seen any PETA lovers on this thread.
    No, but at least one commenter accused us of “blind hatred” toward vegans/vegetarians and only using the word privileged because we don’t like it/them. This is what SarahMC is referring to (correct me if I am wrong, SarahMC). Every time a post is up criticizing PETA for their ads, someone (generally more than one) come here and accuse us of hating on vegans/vegetarians when, if they would just take the time to read the post and comments, it’s very clear that’s not happening.
    adminassistant, brings us back to the actual point of the post:
    “Yeah, pretty much the LAST reason I’m going to convert to vegetarianism is because some naked lady told me to do so. And CERTAINLY NOT because she’s encouraging me to be skinnier.”

  • Jessica

    Farhat, there are non-vegans out there who also rely on supplements to make up for what they lack in their diet…which is not healthy. Nobody should do that. And from what I’ve read, people shouldn’t rely on fortified foods, either, vegan or non-vegan.
    But just because someone does take a supplement in addition to their diet does not automatically make them unhealthy. For instance, I take a multi-vitamin specifically formulated for vegans and a vitamin B-12 supplement. All other nutrients, I get from plants.
    Colleen Patrick-Goudreau has a podcast at about what vitamins vegans should make sure they’re getting.
    Jack Norris, from what I understand, has also done a lot of research on vegan diets.

  • xocoatl

    banning images of attractive women in advertising seems to be the only solution at this point.

  • RacyT

    …being Vegan isn’t something deserving of the blind hatred of otherwise progressive and intelligent human beings.
    I’m also amazed out how quickly people break out “privileged” when they don’t like something.

    Not actually seeing any “blind hatred” of vegans… perhaps you should re-read the thread.
    As for privilege, I grew up in northern Alberta, and when I was a kid, the only produce I saw was bags of potatoes and cooking apples. They do ship it up there nowadays, but the cost is very high. The Canadian government is subsidizing the cost of shipping fruit and vegetables up North to try to encourage people to eat them.
    I also recall when I was in college and had little money, a piece of fruit cost between $.50 and $.75 (yes that’s in the grocery store). A $1 pack of chicken wieners and and a $.99 bag of buns made for 12 whole meals, however. And Ramen was 4 for a buck. I know I sure as hell wasn’t eating produce.
    If you want to talk about how affordable and easy it is to be vegan… go to Nunavut and tell it to the Inuit. I’m sure they’ll sympathize with your outrage.
    I know it’s no fun, but you (and the others who are lucky enough to have the opportunity to make those dietary choices) might try examining your privilege, please.

  • MaggieF

    Before industrialization, eating meat was a luxury. As previous posters mentioned, the cost in land and feed made (and makes in many parts of the world) livestock prohibitively expensive for more than the once-or-twice yearly (often religious) extravagance.
    The average lifespan in the Roman empire at the turn of the first millenium CE was 25. Younger if you were a woman.
    I’m not suggesting these two things are directly correlated–there are all kinds of factors governing lifespan–but one can infer that vegetarianism/veganism does not necessarily equal healthy any more than omnivorism does. In order to have a healthy diet, you need a balance of all kinds of things, and an easy source (not the only one, of course) for some of those is meat. Besides the political and ethical issues with using the border fence to advertise anything (it’s not a sports stadium, people), I find it irresponsible and cluelessly elitist to advocate what can be an expensive dietary habit to an extremely poor demographic, under the guise of “health.”

  • RacyT

    Also, what MaggieF just said.

  • FunnyFeminist

    Isn’t that flag hanging the wrong way? I always thought it went stars then stripes. Anyway . . . .
    It doesn’t surprise me at all the PETA would assume that Spanish-speaking people came to the United States illegaly. It’s obvious that PETA is sexist and classist, but they’re racist too. Here’s one of their FAQs.
    “What about all the customs, traditions, and jobs that depend on using animals?”
    The invention of the automobile, the abolition of slavery, and the end of World War II also necessitated restructuring and job retraining. Making changes to customs, traditions, and jobs is part of social progress—not a reason to deter it.
    I would love for Ingrid Newkirk, the British woman who founded PETA, to walk up to any Lakota, Inuet, or Aborigine living on a reservation and say, “Excuse me, but your custom of hunting for food, shelter, and clothing is immoral, and you must assimilate to my uniquely Western view of animal rights.” I’m sure that would go over real well coming from someone whose ancestors kidnapped native children and forced them to lose their language, religion, and way of life. No member of PETA respects animals and the environment as a whole as much as the people who completely live off the land and are dependent on the preservation of natural resources. Newkirk doesn’t care if any group of people lose their livelihood as long as she keeps her peace of mind.

  • Farhat

    Farhat, there are non-vegans out there who also rely on supplements to make up for what they lack in their diet…which is not healthy. Nobody should do that. And from what I’ve read, people shouldn’t rely on fortified foods, either, vegan or non-vegan.
    I really don’t care what people “should” do, I was just making an observation. Vegans seem to rely a whole lot more on supplements while seeming to state that veganism is healthy and complete diet. Others take supplements as well, but I really don’t see the same level as vegans so. Some vegan parents have even killed their kids by strictly following that diet.

  • Jessica

    “Some vegan parents have even killed their kids by strictly following that diet.”
    I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with this last sentence. All the instances that I’ve read of vegan parents killing their children happened because the parents were being extremely stupid. There was one set of parents who fed their child on a diet of carrots and another who fed their child on apple juice and soy milk. But the number of these parents compared to rest of the vegan population? It’s not the vegan diet that is to blame, it’s the idiotic parents.
    There is tons of information about raising children on a healthy vegan diet out on the net and on the bookshelves. I think it’s silly to judge veganism solely on a handful of not-so-smart people.

  • MaggieF

    Flag’s hanging vertically – look at the direction of the stripes. I’m pretty sure that’s okay. I’ve seen it that way a lot, anyway. They basically just hung it up regularly and turned it clockwise.

  • MaggieF

    Also the ridiculous irony of advertising on the border fence. “We wanna keep ‘em out, but since they’re just gonna come in anyway, we might as well sell to them.”