Quick Hit: Southern Baptist scholar says violence against wives linked to “refusal to submit to their husbands”

Yeah, charming indeed.
Thanks to Angi for the link.

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  • diablaazul

    The link is broken.

  • Laurel

    There is no link.

  • http://www.muslimnista.org Faith

    Hi Jessica,
    The minister sounds like a jerk for sure. However, the link to the article doesn’t seem to be working. Just wanted to give you a heads up.

  • suki_t

    I’d love to read more about this but the link is broken :(

  • Citizen Lane

    The link is broken, but I think you mean this one:
    http://ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=10675

  • emily

    That link is blank, Jessica.

  • Kitty

    Link’s broken.

  • http://dru-plus-spike.livejournal.com Moxie Hart

    Whenever an article like this is posted, I always wonder where are the “moderate” religious folks saying that this doesn’t represent us?

  • Vanessa

    Thanks for the heads up all, sorry about that! Link is now fixed.

  • bornskeptic

    Hi! Moderate religious folk(s) here, saying that this doesn’t represent me, or my family, although unfortunately I admit that there are those that it does represent.
    I was just thinking that I was there, so that I could walk out of the church during that sermon. My mom has walked out before, when she heard something she didn’t like. She’s awesome.

  • Kristi

    Moxie Hart –
    Here’s one. Well, actually, I’m much more of a liberal than I am a moderate, but I do consider myself a Christian, and idiots like Bruce Ware and anyone else from the Council for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and similar factions in Christianity that seek to oppress women certainly do NOT speak for me.

  • Maggie

    Wasn’t this up last week? I remember trying to comment on it and the comments wouldn’t work.
    Oh well. Here goes:
    “Ware also touched on a verse from First Timothy saying that women “shall be saved in childbearing,” by noting that the word translated as “saved” always refers to eternal salvation.”
    The verse he’s referring to is I Tim 2:15. The operative verb in that clause is “sozo,” which means, “save.” Actually, knowing I Tim, I don’t doubt the guy’s interpretation–it was written for people just like him, and there really isn’t any other way to read that passage. That doesn’t make him less of an idiot jackass though. While sozo definitely refers to salvation in the New Testament, I’m not really comfortable saying that it always does, and the New Testament is definitely not the first or only text ever to be written in Greek. Liddell and Scott defines sozo in exactly the same terms as we would define the English word “save”: keep from harm/death, preserve, remember, etc. Many of the texts L&S cites, such as the Odyssey, are far too early to even have a concept of eternity, let alone eternal salvation.
    Anyway, this doesn’t really contribute to the “Gawd, what a sexist jerk” conversation that should be going on about this guy, but as a biblical scholar who takes seriously things like research and looking in a fucking dictionary, I’m really offended when people like this get to be called “scholars.” Also, hypocrisy abounds as he completely leaves out the theology of Paul, who arguably makes up the most comprehensive theology in the NT, and who says that things you DO (like bear children) have nothing whatsoever to do with salvation.
    Again, maybe this wasn’t such a feminist rant, but I believe in discrediting those who have no credibility.

  • Sarah Connor

    sorry-but coming from a religious perspective myself Eve did not sin by herself-they both sinned and were kicked out together. also he contradicts himself by talking about how because jesus(pbuh) submitted to god, women must therefore submit to men. i would suspect even a non-religious person could lable this as blasphemous. a similar argument is used to justify forcing women the wear the hijab. rediculous!

  • stephamole

    known: bible was written by men
    opinion: this is what happens when you translate the bible too literally, it turns into fundamentalism, dogmas, and of course, opression.

  • BlueCat

    Jesus also welcomed women as disciples, and told Mary not to be mad at Martha for abandoning her traditional role to follow him and study scripture instead. Funny how that gets right past guys like this. Also, it doesn’t seem to me that beating a women honors her in any way, shape or form (and husbands honoring their wives is the other half of their scripture).

  • hellotampon

    “He has primary responsibility for the work and the labor and the toil that will provide for the family”
    When are these people going to get with the program and acknowledge that the vast majority of families *need* 2 incomes today?

  • Maggie

    Sarah Connor: That’s pretty standard fare coming from religious conservatives. Is it wrong? Probably–the same people who blame Eve for the Fall fail to recognize that Genesis explicitly states Adam was with her when she accepted the fruit. And, like I mentioned, Ware’s interpretation of I Timothy is probably well in keeping with that particular author’s intent.
    Stephamole: Please elaborate on your first comment. “The Bible was written by men” is a pretty common way to deride as worthless a complex, meaningful collection of (mostly) individual documents written for a variety of reasons, and with a variety of stances on the roles of women. The author of I Timothy was certainly heirarchical and sexist, inasmuch as we can assign a concept as modern as “sexist” to a person living in 150 CE. The author of Romans, however, was proud to have female collegues, and stated in another letter that God does not discriminate based on gender (he didn’t quite phrase it that way). The attempt to belittle something based entirely on the gender of its authorship is exactly one of the things that the feminist movement is fighting against. Also, I know of quite a few people who would disagree with you on the basic point that “the Bible” was written by exclusively men.

  • http://www.xanga.com/andrea_thatonegirl TheNerd

    I really want to sent him a flaming email, but I just don’t think it will help. If anything he will see it as a sign of how depraved and sassy we bitches can get without a firm backhand to guide us. In this case, I say we can only treat it as an incurable virus, and quarantine him before he spreads!

  • diablaazul

    Moxie Hart:
    A number of moderate Christians have condemned Ware’s comments. See here and here and here.

  • Stentor

    Ironic isn’t it? That the party that supposedly champions ‘family values’ is the one busy making it impossible to live on anything less than two incomes?
    That’s why I know they’re complete and utter hypocrites. And it won’t change until the fundies realize that the country-club republicans do NOT have their best interests at heart, they just believe in exploiting them for their votes, their labor, and spending both at the ballot-box & Wal-Mart.

  • stephamole

    Maggie:
    Don’t, get me wrong, definitely not trying to belittle the Bible. What I meant by my statement was that since the bible was written by men, of course it is going to reflect the patriarchy of its time.

  • http://www.feministing.com/archives/009609.html stevo

    I am new here and I gave my website address when I signed up at “movable type”. The URL Text Box (above) to sign to make a comment, is that supposed to be my address or the URL of this thread????

  • http://www.feministing.com/archives/009609.html stevo

    I am new here and I gave my website address when I signed up at “movable type”. The URL Text Box (above) to sign to make a comment, is that supposed to be my address or the URL of this thread????

  • http://www.feministing.com/archives/009609.html stevo

    I am new here and I gave my website address when I signed up at “movable type”. The URL Text Box (above) to sign to make a comment, is that supposed to be my address or the URL of this thread????

  • http://home.earthlink.net/~stevoartist stevo

    There was violence done to me by Baptists in 1974 when ministers performed an “exorcism” on me. This was psychological debilitating and cost me many years of expensive therapy. Baptists should not harm people where they cannot be taxpayers and wage-earners. Baptists who harm people psychologically are harming the people and the gov’t at the same time.
    I was harmed by Baptist exorcism. I don’t wish this on anyone.
    I am a man, not a woman. I don’t have any gripes at all with feminist ideals. I am also Autistic, Asperger’s Syndrome and life is not easy for me. I am 57 years old.
    I hope my comment posts here.

  • http://home.earthlink.net/~stevoartist stevo

    There was violence done to me by Baptists in 1974 when ministers performed an “exorcism” on me. This was psychological debilitating and cost me many years of expensive therapy. Baptists should not harm people where they cannot be taxpayers and wage-earners. Baptists who harm people psychologically are harming the people and the gov’t at the same time.
    I was harmed by Baptist exorcism. I don’t wish this on anyone.
    I am a man, not a woman. I don’t have any gripes at all with feminist ideals. I am also Autistic, Asperger’s Syndrome and life is not easy for me. I am 57 years old.
    I hope my comment posts here.

  • http://home.earthlink.net/~stevoartist stevo

    There was violence done to me by Baptists in 1974 when ministers performed an “exorcism” on me. This was psychological debilitating and cost me many years of expensive therapy. Baptists should not harm people where they cannot be taxpayers and wage-earners. Baptists who harm people psychologically are harming the people and the gov’t at the same time.
    I was harmed by Baptist exorcism. I don’t wish this on anyone.
    I am a man, not a woman. I don’t have any gripes at all with feminist ideals. I am also Autistic, Asperger’s Syndrome and life is not easy for me. I am 57 years old.
    I hope my comment posts here.

  • http://home.earthlink.net/~stevoartist stevo

    There was violence done to me by Baptists in 1974 when ministers performed an “exorcism” on me. This was psychological debilitating and cost me many years of expensive therapy. Baptists should not harm people where they cannot be taxpayers and wage-earners. Baptists who harm people psychologically are harming the people and the gov’t at the same time.
    I was harmed by Baptist exorcism. I don’t wish this on anyone.
    I am a man, not a woman. I don’t have any gripes at all with feminist ideals. I am also Autistic, Asperger’s Syndrome and life is not easy for me. I am 57 years old.
    I hope my comment posts here.