Hillary Sexism Watch: Facebook Group Edition

Thanks to a tip by reader Shannon, we find that there’s a Facebook group titled, “Hillary Clinton: Stop Running for President and Make Me a Sandwich.” And it has nearly 40,000 members.
There are tons others like it, but this one is especially obnoxious It’s description says the group is “Dedicated to keeping Hillary Clinton out of the Oval Office and in the kitchen.” They’re also selling t -shirts for their “cause.”
But the most upsetting part of this was the large number of women who are members – just glancing at it, I would guess that at least twenty percent of members are women. Depressing.

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  • meeneecat

    Anjali, I understand what your saying, that both racism and sexism are dehumanizing and we should not be pitting one against the other, but I have a question about something you said that seems to contradict your this statements, you said:
    “one action is denigrating to women, another is dehumanizing to NO END. there’s a VERY good reason i’d be more pissed off with obama pick my cotton, (than sexism?) and you all should be too”
    What you are saying here essentially is that one form of oppression is worse than another, that racism is WORSE than sexism. And quite frankly this offends me, as someone who has worked both to end sexism (as a feminist) and racism (working with children in inner city schools) I don’t think anyone can argue that either is worse than the other or for that matter any form of oppression is worse than the another, anti-semitism, sexism, racism, whatever – they are all equally dehumanizing.
    Racism and sexism are very much intertwined as are all forms of oppression and many civil rights advocates say that you can’t address one form of oppression without addressing the others. When you argue that race is worse than other types of oppression, I’m sorry but you are only invalidating your own argument here, namely that we should not be pitting one type of oppression against another. If I have misunderstood what you have said here, please correct me.
    But, the fact that you would think that anyone who doesn’t agree with you and the statement, ‘racism is worse than___ (other forms of oppression’, and if someone disagrees, than they “should be ashamed” – well it just disturbs me. It doesn’t sound like you are taking a very positive stance in addressing any of the issues of oppression including racism, with an attitude that pits one forms of oppression against another (divided we will fall). I’m sorry if that sounds harsh, but, again my main reason for not feeling that one particular oppressed group has it worse than another is because they are all RELATED and are all a result of the power structure that is currently in place. I suggest you read the following article on the common elements of oppression. Perhaps in your life racism has played a bigger part than sexism, and perhaps for you racism has been worse than sexism, but remember everyone has unique experiences and for some homophobia may be the most damaging. When you say one is worse than the other you are only invalidating the experiences of millions of other people who are affected by different forms of oppression in different ways. This is why it is important to form a movement based on changing the power structure and ending all forms of oppression. Of course we can address the individual forms of oppression, such as sexism and racism, but what I’m trying to advocate for here is unity, we are all working towards a similar goal. I cannot express my point of view any better than how this article does I suggest you read it to understand what I’m trying to say here. (sometimes i have a hard time expressing in words what I am trying to say)
    The Common Elements of Oppression: http://slanttruth.com/2007/10/03/the-common-elements-of-oppression/

  • meeneecat

    I posted this link on the other thread that was invaded by trolls, but it’s useful, so I’ll post it again. Sorry it’s a little off topic, but I think it’s helpful, at least it was to me. The primary goal of trolls is to derail a conversation by using several techniques including:
    1. Outward manifestations of sincerity (but, the only goal is to derail the conversation)
    2.Flame baiting (inflammatory comments designed to illicit predictable anger)
    3.Attempts to provoke futile argument by willfully misinterpreting comments, discussing irrelevant topics, or by ideological manipulation.
    Check it out, it helped me understand their motivations and how to better deal with them:

  • http://www.losanjalis.com anjali

    Wow, I wasn’t at ALL saying that racism is worse than sexism. I’m the last person to not try to address both -isms together. NOTHING i do addresses one -ism over another. I fear some folks HERE try to make the either/or comparison too often and there’s so much talk of sexism being worse than racism.
    What I was getting at with my comment was that the comment “Obama, Pick my Cotton” was more offensive than “Hillary make me a sandwicH” and that therefore you cannot compare them. You just CANNOT compare slavery to “make me a sandwich” said facetiously.
    Another commenter said what if the comparison was obama, shine my shoes. fine. perhaps those are more equal comparisons (i’m not really sure if they’re equally offensive or not, but at least we’re not talking about slavery directly there).
    I’m not saying it’s ok to say woman make me a sandwich. NOT at ALL. i’m a feminist, and i would NEVER say something like that (and would be offended by that statement even though i’m not a clinton supporter). i’m just saying if you want to talk equals, the comparison between slavery and make me a sandwich isn’t equal.
    that’s really all.
    meeneecat thanks for the info on addressing oppressions together. but if you see the comment i made, i said EXACTLY the SAME thing (after my note of caution about slavery).

  • meeneecat

    Anjali, again what you are saying here with the following “the comment “Obama, Pick my Cotton” was more offensive than “Hillary make me a sandwicH” and that therefore you cannot compare them. You just CANNOT compare slavery to “make me a sandwich” said facetiously.”
    But you ARE comparing the two comments, thus comparing sexism to racism. You also justify that by saying one talks about slavery and thus is automatically worse, but you don’t seem to acknowledge that women and young girls get sold into sexual slavery everyday and it is rampant. There is racist slavery and there is sexist gender-based slavery. But they are both equally as dehumanizing. There is no hierarchy of oppression here. You may not see it that way, but that’s how I see it. Your comment IS a direct comparison of the two. And as I maintained before, there is no hierarchy of oppression (from the article). The racist Obama comment and the sexist Hillary comment are equally as offensive. At least in my opinion.

  • Skeptic

    The claim that the “this isn’t anti-women, it’s anti-Hillary!” excuse is silly because nobody would denigrate a male candidate in this way is 100% correct, in my view.
    The problem with the reactions here is the assumption this facebook group is really “anti-Hillary” in the first place.
    Like most facebook groups, it’s merely an immature attention-getting device. Why pay them any attention, let alone serious attention?
    I mean, I’ve just got a facebok invitation dedicate to the summary execution of all those old people who drive slow in the fast lane. Should I really bother with a blog posts about this horrible anti-old-persons racism?

  • Skeptic

    Of course you can compare “Obama, pick my cotton” to “Hillary, make me a sandwich”. The reason? Neither or these groups are either pro-slavery, anti-women, anti-Hillary, pro-Obama, or anything else.
    They’re just immature attention getting devices, that’s all–on the same level of a 3-year-old saying “I hate you!” to shock his parents, or, perhaps a better example, an 18-year-old getting tattoed and peirced to shock her parents.
    To repeat my post above: why bother giving either *any* attention, let alone serious attention?
    It’s obvious these guys don’t really care about either Hillary or Obama; their only purpose is to make the *reader* of their nonsense feel offended and shocked,
    Well, they’ve certainly succeeded in your case, haven’t they?

  • http://www.losanjalis.com anjali

    wow. i’m NOT making a hierarchy of OPPRESSION (i’m not saying racism is worse than sexism). I’m acknowledging the difference in degree.
    equal: woman make me a sandwich. black man shine my shoes.
    equal: black man pick my cotton. woman i’m selling you into sexual slavery.
    THAT’s all i’m saying.
    really, i’m NOT making a hierarchy of oppression. i’ve NEVER done that here on this blog or elsewhere (on my blog or otherwise). please stop saying i’m saying racism is worse than sexism. i’m making a clarification of degrees of offensiveness above. that’s ALL.

  • 13lesslee

    So, Skeptic, if this matter is such a waste of time, then why (pray tell) are you repeatedly posting on this thread?

  • SarahMC

    Uppity bitches make him nervous, 13lesslee.

  • 13lesslee

    yeah well, we’ve been seeing an awful lot o that lately, right?
    hence the topic of this post.

  • dedf

    “…their only purpose is to make the *reader* of their nonsense feel offended and shocked,
    Well, they’ve certainly succeeded in your case, haven’t they? ”
    Yes, which is exactly why they should be banned.
    p.s. Leave your condescending
    attitude at the door.

  • http://www.cruellablog.blogspot.com Cruella

    If you go to the group and look in the bottom left hand corner of the page, there is a button to click to “report this page” and then you get a box to fill in saying why you consider it inappropriate.
    And if you are anti-Hillary but not anti women then go start a group called “Keep Hillary out of the White House because of her policy on healthcare/education/whatever”

  • anon123098

    I know some people who have joined this group (not as a joke) and I hope that it comes back to haunt them in their professional lives since, as we’re learning, everything that goes on Facebook exists forever. But hoping people get punished for their online sexism is unfortunately probably a total fantasy.

  • realityfighter

    One of my old friends just joined a similarly distasteful group called “If Hilary Clinton is Elected, Texas Will Secede.” Blech.

  • KnitingQn

    this actually made me think of something that happens semi-frequently to me.
    i’ll be talking to a female friend of mine about feminism and she’ll say that she is anti-feminist. That she aspires to be a house wife, who does photgraphy on the sidelines. i can understand where she is coming from, but i always remind her that she is in college therefore she can’t be anti-feminist.
    in the end i always htink she see how she IS a feminist, but days later we’ll have the same conversation.
    this facebook group and the number of woman in it, don’t truly surprise me as much as it should. i think that it has a lot to do with how patriarchy has/is making woman’s rights a joke. i.e. The Rape Shirt, and the idea that woman are only good enough to make sandwiches.
    also that woman have the wrong idea about feminism.

  • plenilune

    i’m late to the discussion, but when i went to report the group i noticed that the group appears to have had all of its message boards suspended. they still direct you to cafepress to buy one of their lovely shirts.

  • plenilune

    i’m late to the discussion but wanted to mention that when i went to report the group, i noticed that all of their posting boards (comments, pics) appear to have been suspended. they still ask you to go to cafepress to buy one of their lovely shirts.
    oh, and satire needs to be smart to work. this group, and others like it, are not smart.

  • spike the cat

    Free speech allows us to know thy enemy well. To me this is like misogynistic porn and music. Don’t censor them; it’s important to know just how much they hate us.
    I will be deleting my Facebook account though.
    Although it’s depressing to see women participating, it is not surprising. Here is why.
    We still live in a society based upon a heirarchy of male status (and with males having higher value); so one of the relatively easy ways a woman can increase her status is by putting other women down.
    I won’t address the comments about similar self-disparaging behavior by people of color because I don’t want to hijack the topic; but this too is an integral part of how racism functions.
    This “motivation” for this seemingly paradoxical behavior in any group usually comes from a religious belief (e.g. caste system, madonna-whore) or through instilling self-doubt in a group (e.g. some groups have lower IQs, “scientific “inferiority, observed inferiority, ect) or other belief systems passed on through indoctrination (nappy hair, etc).
    just some thoughts

  • nerdalert

    Salut Emelire! Don’t worry, your English is MUCH better than my French. :)
    In the States, there isn’t really any mainstream voice against sexism in the media. We have http://www.mediamatters.org, which focuses on bias in the U.S. news media. Feminist blogs like this one are really the best starting point for breaking down sexism, in my opinion.
    I followed the French election pretty closely, and I was so sad that Segolene didn’t win!

  • Cheryl Lynne Oropal

    yes, thanks, and that was what suprised me the most.SICKENING! then again, you see ” baptist school this and that” , ahem- ad nauseam! they all can not wait for their promised anti-abortion rights ole john mc same promises them?

  • http://marnanel.org Thomas Thurman

    Somehow I think there should be a rival Facebook group called “Ron Paul: Stop Running for President and Perform My Abortion.”

  • Cheryl Lynne Oropal

    re: marnanel’s commnt about ron paul? after hearing how great this guy was supposed to be from two gals I met, I went to his site . then I saw that ron paul was both anti-abortion and did not feel that health care for all was an american right. needless to say , I was like WTF???? what could be so great about him??”

  • http://stores.ebay.com/Cheryl-Lynnes-Trannysass-Trailer?refid=store Cheryl Lynne Oropal

    and well, having not been in here for a while, I first read the comment up at the far top about how this person said how many in here ” maybe don’t like hillary because of her, not the fact that she’s a woman.” to this point, I’ve been calling and supporting her all the way, but between this washington post[ DC] writer’s negative criticism toward obama’s supporting fully the repeal on partial birth abortion + birth control for all including low income women;[PA senator's endosement of obama]; and the fact that PA CATHOLICS support hillary[ one of the most ANTI-CHOICE CHURCHES in america!] ; I’m now beginning to stray from the hillary flock and question who’s the better , pro choice canidate? [my neice, a feminist and big obama supporter, said to me, ” well aunt cheryl, it’s at least good to see you somewhat seeing it the way I do.”

  • Sam

    In my opinion, facebook groups don’t need a “sexism watch”. It’s a joke. As passionate as some of you are about gender equality and sexism, it’s a joke. Dave Chapelle made fun of white people for years and the vast majority of white people were rolling in the aisles along with everyone else.

  • SarahMC

    Dave Chapelle’s humor was subversive – a member of a marginalized group making fun of those in power. It’s not satirical or humorous when oppressors mock the oppressed.
    Besides, Chapelle quit his show because he realized that white people were laughing for all the wrong reasons; they didn’t get the joke and were instead getting a kick out of racist jokes.

  • Sam

    Is it okay for the oppressed to mock themselves? I think most people realize that the facebook group isn’t meant as a serious instance of misogyny.
    And it’s rather hypocritical to claim that a marginalized group can mock the hegemonic group with any more legitimacy than vice versa. Would the same sort of fuss be made if there were a facebook group that mocked men? If not, this one doesn’t deserve a fuss either.

  • http://cheryloropal.blogspot.com Cheryl Lynne Oropal

    re: sam and dave chappell . I guess that’s a lot like, well, the notorious andrew dice clay , a comedian whom many women loved to hate back in the 1980’s and early 90’s . I had not heard of this person in a while, and upon mentioning his name to somebody, they sent me clips of some of his comedy shows. about two years ago , I mentioned something about him to this butch-lesbian gal, and how misogynistic his jokes were, to which she replied, “I love andrew dice! he’s so fucking hillarious, as his jokes are only based upon the truth!” then,having seen this guy once in person, and a few times on video, I had to notice just how many women there were in the audience, literally rolling with laughter and embarrassment all at once. and so, I guess the idea is not for women to get upset at this guy, but rather, in the case of somebody like margaret cho; simply be the hard core feminist comedian and tell “pussy jokes” that would give somebody like dice , a run for his money in any comedy battle.[ for the sake of proving this, I had to compare them side to side with video clips of each; and perhaps, the best part with ” dice” was when his ex-fiancee’whom was right there in the audience, literally jumped up on that stage and began to literally rip him apart with her own, women’s nasty jokes ; thus cutting into him real good!