Southwest Airlines is apparently now telling its female passengers how to dress. Kyla Ebbert was reprimanded and nearly kicked off a flight for daring to wear a tank top, miniskirt, and cardigan. (This picture is of the outfit she was wearing at the time. Scandalous, no? How dare she walk around in 100-degree weather wearing that?!)
They walked out onto the jet bridge, where [flight attendant/fashion policeman] Keith told Ebbert her clothing was inappropriate and asked her to change. She explained she was flying to Tucson for only a few hours and had brought no luggage.
“I asked him what part of my outfit was offensive,â€? she said. “The shirt? The skirt? And he said, ‘The whole thing.’ â€?
Keith asked her to go home, change and take a later flight. She refused, citing her appointment. The plane was ready to leave, so Keith relented. He had her pull up her tank top a bit, pull down her skirt a bit, and return to her seat.
Guess we know what airline Wendy “Modestly Yours” Shalit is going to be flying from now on!
The San Diego Union-Tribune columnist clearly thinks Ebbert’s treatment was unacceptable, but then he throws up his hands:
Who knows where the lines are drawn these days, particularly when it comes to dress? If you watch television, or visit the mall, or take in a game at Petco Park, you’ll see women dressed in ways that, 50 years ago, were pornographic. Today they are stylish.
Uh, newsflash: 50 years ago, Southwest was requiring its own stewardesses to wear skirts just as short as Ebbert’s. (Picture below the fold.) So much for the good ol’ days of modesty.
Thanks to reader Elizabeth for the link.
UPDATE: If you want to let Southwest president Colleen Barrett know what you think about this incident… contact info is here.
91 Comments
I don’t see why you’d need to have one row of extra seats for extremely obese people. Most people are not that fat! It’s pretty rare. But seriously, when I was sitting in my seat I ended up holding my arm in my lap because there was no where else to put it. And even then her flesh was still invading my personal space. Actual, surreptitious cameraphone pic. People have to pay extra when they have a lot of bags; I don’t see why this should be any different.
People have to pay extra when they have a lot of bags; I don’t see why this should be any different.
Because it’s a human being, not a piece of luggage. And that person deserves to travel for the same amount of money the rest of do for the same crappy, half-assed service. Put yourself in that persons’ shoes…they are being forced to pay tons of money for a seat on a flight they can’t even fit into. I’m sure the lady next to you wasn’t too comfortable either (and taking a pic was actually a bit rude). Making them pay for 2 seats is hardly fair.
The column was obnoxious. Coupe de grace: “I hope she’s not sitting next to my husband,” Garin replied.
Puke.
The column was obnoxious. Coupe de grace: “I hope she’s not sitting next to my husband,” Garin replied.
Puke.
The column was obnoxious. Coupe de grace: “I hope she’s not sitting next to my husband,” Garin replied.
Puke.
apologies for the threepeat. no idea what went down there.
I’d bet this was body-based sexism. She’s really being penalized for having an attractive figure. Just like that woman who claimed that Jessica V. was “sticking out her breasts.” My money says if she were flat-chested with short legs, they wouldn’t have said a word.
Ditto that.
For the record, I LOVE Southwest. They were tremendously helpful to my family when we needed last-second plane tickets, one-ways, and changed flights during family illness. Oddly, a lot of the people at Lindberg Field were wonderful to us.
So yeah, I think this Keith character is not acting in accordance with Southwest policy. The company cannot be responsible for the actions of every single employee – really, do you want them to electronically monitor everyone? However, it can control how it responds to problems with its employees.
ponies and rainbows, I’m sorry you’ve had such bad experiences with men. I try to take up no more than my “fair share” of space on the subway and make room for others, male or female.
I don’t think it’s fair to say I was “so angry” with this woman — I was just made really uncomfortable. And no matter how wide an average-sized guy spreads his legs, there is no way he could take up as much space as this woman.
Taina, the additional costs of transporting obese passengers have to be paid by those passengers, or get passed along to the non-fat ones. It’s the latter, not the former, that strikes me as hardly fair.
I do agree with oenophile and erin about body-based sexism.
There’s an actual technical reason for making an obese person pay for two seats, believe it or not. It’s not just “the people who run airlines are assholes.” They pro-rate the amount of fuel to take on board (it’s one of these JIT cost-saving, efficiency-optimising measures), and I believe the weight they average at is about 175lbs. A person who is 400 lbs in one seat is throwing that average way off.
The flight crew doesn’t really have a lot of discretion about this; what amount of fuel they get is basically set by regulation and company policy. If you’re complaining about the two-seats policy, that’s the angle you should be taking, on the grounds that you’ll sound like you know what you’re talking about.
My dad was a commercial pilot from 1979 until this year, when he retired. I got a lot of insight into commercial aviation from his talking shop at the dinner table.
There are not, however, reasons why women in short skirts and tank tops may be cabin safety hazards.
*continues thread derailment*
Yeah, I try to avoid sitting next to men on public transport if I can help it, because of the “phantom penis” syndrome.
I’ve paid the same fare as you, now let me have my half of the seat!
Recently I experienced the phenomenon to the point that I had to “accidently” shove the guy with my elbow several times. So passive-aggressive, I know.
It just sucks. Why oh why do they sit with their legs so far apart? I swear, the next guy who takes up MY space is going to get an earful!
Phantom Penis Syndrome! i’m so glad i’m not the only one who has noticed this phenomenon. I find it incredibly annoying. My boyfriend/male relatives even do it just sitting on the couch, in a recliner, etc. Aghghgh. Kind of icky too.
As far as the whole 2 seat debate… I don’t know, I kind of thing it might have to do with passenger safety as well, mightn’t it? I mean i would feel safer in a smaller, more aerodynamic, less weighted down plane than one with La-Z-boys in it and lots of heavy people. Let’s not forget, most heavy people (we’re talking 400 pounds as someone had mentioned earlier, the kind that would require 2 seats) have to have, at some level, responsibility for being obese. Obviously they are people, who deserve to be treated with respect and dignity, but going so far as to cater to the growing obese population I’m not sure is quite the answer. There has to be some compromise, some other way.
Misogyny at its finest, if a bitter man can’t lay an attractive women, he can at least ruin her day.
It is airing out the ball-sack … has nothing to do with the weenus at all. But obv. it is rude to invade someone’s personal space or room.
Airing out the ball-sack? I’ve never felt the need to invade someone else’s personal space by airing out my cooch on a hot day, but we women aren’t socialized to feel entitled to public space. But you know, maybe Ms. Ebbert HAD to wear a short skirt in order to air out her privates.
Exactly SarahMC!
If we’re going to get technical, I’m sure my ladyparts require good ventilation to be happy and healthy, so maybe I’ll start sitting with my legs as far apart as possible on the bus.
If anyone asks me to move, I’ll just say “Gotta keep the air circulating, if you now what I mean.”
Then I’ll wink.
That oughta do it.
It’s not like men spread ‘em wide only during the hot months. They do it all the time. They do it in air-conditioned settings. Airing out the ball-sack, my ball-sack.
Women breastfeeding, INDECENT!
Women exposing thigh, IMMORAL!
Men airing out ball-sacks, they gotta do what they gotta do.
sorry, but giant obese passengers should pay double. the seats should also be bigger, but in no way should they be the size that can accomodate 400 or 500 pounds. lose some freaking weight. because you know what i ALWAYS get stuck next to those people and i end up with half my seat and they have a seat and a half. its not fair, and i wish people would stop making excuses for horrendous, disgusting eating habits. i am not talking about how people should be one weight and only one thing is beautiful, i am talking about people who are dangerous to themselves and uncomfortable and rude to others.
that being said, what is offensive about that outfit? i just dont get it. so ridiculous. probably wouldnt have happened in nyc or something.
as i noted, i wasn’t justifying … just explaining … has nothing to do with heat or any “phantom penis syndrome” … but a true gentleman knows the comfort of his ball-sack does not justify invading someone else’s personal space… and the whole thing with the 23-year-old just ridiculous … ppl should be mad …
OMG! kave barney, I totally forgot about the children. Save the Children! Save the Children! They might see my upper thigh and…and..what? See upper thigh?
No, it’s obviously the OCULAR BLEEDING that occurs when children catch a glimpse of skin. Terrible thing. kave barney is going to do a telethon.
Katie,
Why would you assume that fat people have “horrendous, disgusting eating habits”?? What kind of stereotyping is that? Are there fat people who have gained that weight due to their own habits? Yes. But there are also people who are very fat due to medical issues. There are also fat people who have dieted themselves up to a high weight…trying to “lose some freaking weight.”
That being said, the most uncomfortable flight I’ve ever had (on Southwest, no less) was while sitting next to a thin man. This man was thin, but he was extremely tall and WIDE. He was just built that way. His body structure was wide and I ended up with half my body hanging out into the aisle. I was so uncomfortable…it was awful!
Being a fat woman myself, I’m always very concious of being unobtrusive in situations like seating capacity. I do my best to take up as little room as possible, going so far as to be very uncomfortable and tense for the entire flight so I don’t disturbe anyone beside me.
If they’re going to make me pay for two seats for being fat, then they better make that thin, wide guy pay for two seats as well. And that’s the issue here. It’s only about fat people…those are the only ones they discriminate against. When they start evaluating the skeletal structure of ALL who board their planes, then I’ll change my mind about their policy.
Saw Ann on CNN.com! Woo hoo!
May I just plead with everyone, as a long-time reader of this and other feminist blogs, to consider that someone who *surreptitiously* takes a photo of an obese woman without her knowledge, and subsequently links to said photo on the Internet, on a feminist blog no less, is really not here for honest reasons (i.e., to learn, to discuss feminist issues with an open mind). This is some smug punk here for his own amusement, who will vacillate between “thoughtful” (but not really) comments and sarcastic comments, with some graphic provocative comments (ball-sacks? hello?), as well as condescending minimizing comments (*I’m sorry to hear you’ve had bad experiences with men*) thrown in for good measure. As the unparalleled Donna Darko would say, please do not feed this troll. He is here for his own amusement only. Frankly I am surprised the moderators of this blog would not notice someone posting to a Flikr photo of a woman taken without her knowledge and taken with the intent of mocking her later. That’s pretty sad.
Furthermore, since I did look at the photo out of morbid curiosity, I am guessing from alaric’s appearance that he is on the young side, or at least, is not a veteran of the Vietnam war. That struck me, given how passionately he was discussing the unfairness of Vietnam and the draft of that time in a previous thread. May I suggest, as someone who works on behalf of veterans’ rights, that people like alaric refrain from co-opting and exploiting the painful experiences of actual Vietnam war veterans (or speaking authoritatively about them when in actual fact you have not the first clue) for their own mirth. It is a sign of deeply flawed character to co-opt Vietnam veterans’ experiences to play devil’s advocate on a blog for one’s own amusement.
The CNN headline: “Hooters gal told outfit too skimpy to fly”
Because someone’s place of employment is a defining characteristic of their being. It just sends all the wrong messages… It encourages people to watch the video to see what the “Hooters gal” is wearing and exactly how skimpy it is, as opposed to honest outrage or concern over the issue.
I don’t know, I hate the use of the word “gal” so much that the headline just screams sexism to me.
I’ll bet we’ll never see a headline that reads: “Misogynist Charged With Rape,” because it would be biased. But I guess it’s okay to use the word “gal,” huh?
I say KUDOS to Keith the flight attendant for speaking up and letting this young lady know her outfit was too revealing and not modest. Kyla shouldn’t have left home wearing such an outfit.
It’s too revealing and not modest. Us ladies need to remember that when we wear clothing that is not modest we can cause others to sin. When we meet God, we will be accountable for this. It’s the truth, people. Again kudos to Keith and shame on Kyla!
May God Bless us all.
Maria
oh, cute. well, I always knew Southwest sucked; that’s just one more reason. maybe they’ll finally go under one of these days…
Listen to what Kyla Ebbert’s MOM had to say about her (from the San Dieto Union-Tribune): “My daughter is young, tall, blond and beautiful,â€? Michele Ebbert told me, “and she is both envied and complimented on her appearance. She dresses provocatively, as do 99 percent of 23-year-old girls who can. But they were out of line.â€?
Obviously, the apple didn’t fall far from the tree here!!!
Her mom approves of her walking around with her legs and chest exposed to public view – and is livid that an airline told her that she was not dressed appropriately to be on their aircraft.
And most of the posters here agree with the Ebberts, that a woman has a “right” to expose herself in a sexualized way in public!
That’s a truly odd sort of feminism!!!
Gregory: Don’t talk to me about feminism. If you think what you are advocating is feminist you have some reading to do.
Yeah, advocating that women be allowed to make their own choices rather than being talked down to and told what to do with themselves. What an odd sort of feminism it is! Oh, no, wait, that’s exactly what feminism is supposed to be. Where’s the odd part, again?
Southwest airlines: fashion police of the skies
First, they came for our toothpaste. Now, our tank tops? Kyla Ebbert, 23, was recently escorted off a Southwest Airlines flight by a male customer service supervisor for wearing the outfit shown in this photograph. The college student and Hooters wait…
Mariainmass,
Hon, did you stumble into the wrong blog? First of all, she had the right to wear what she wanted. She wasn’t showing anything but leg. Secondly, I don’t believe in sin. Thirdly, I’m sure as hell not a “lady.” I’m a woman and all that entails.
Thanks.
I highly recommend that the folks that commented on the legality and mechanics of Southwest’s Q&A regarding their “Customers of Size” policy at: http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html
Important points: SWA defines a COS as someone who cannot lower the armrest between the seats and/or compromises any portion of the adjacent seat. A “thin but wide” person could very well be a COS.
Also, when a COS pays for an additional seat, if the flight does not oversell, they can request a refund for that additional seat after travel.
I have heard from at least one COS that they actually like SWA’s COS policy. They told me that it was easy to book two seats for one customer with SWA, unlike on other airlines. By doing it in advance, they avoid any potential awkwardness when boarding and they frequently received refunds for the second seat. And even when they had to pay for both seats, two seats on SWA was typically less expensive than one seat on another carrier — and far more comfortable.
Finally, I wonder how many of the comments above swearing off flying SWA because of their COS policy would actually be affected by it?
SWA certainly has its detractors but I firmly believe that it does a lot more right than wrong (with Keith and Kyla falling into the latter category). My family has always had good experiences with them. Their employees have always seemed happy and customer oriented to us. They have an amazing profit record. And they manage to do this without having dumped the responsibility of their pension plan onto taxpayers like a couple of other carriers have.
she can wear an outfit anytime she wants and ill fly her for free…
Airline employees make up rules on the spot all the time. I’ve taken to printing out a copy of the contract of carriage before flying, then when a flight attendant or gate agent decides to be “innovative,” I can ask them to show me the rule they are citing.
Charity, Charity, Charity…
I certainly never claimed, implied, or suggested that I was around during the Vietnam draft. (Were all the women here around for the historic stuff they rail against? Does a woman have to be raped to rail against rape?).
It’s a very dishonest suggestion on your part to suggest I was co-opting or whatever the experience of Vietnam veterans. My point was just about the conscription of men in general, although I did use Vietnam as a specific example. It is a sign of deeply flawed character on your part to so terribly distort what I was saying.
Re: ball-sacks, y’know, that’s just male anatomy. I’m sorry if you are so anti-male that that makes you uncomfortable. I don’t think it’s any more offensive than this so-called “phantom penis syndrome” which is just silly (and mildly anti-male, with no basis in reality).
Also, I just want to note for the record that the photo of the obese woman just shows her arm. There’s nothing at all in it that could identify her.
To me, this is a clear case of harrassment…and possibly even sexual harrassment.
Kyla Ebbert was doing nothing wrong, nor was she wearing anything that would be considered threatening…unless you consider a flash of leg or cleavage threatening to your concept of “modesty”.
Yet, she was targeted for such harrassment in a way that no other woman or man would be…simply due to her choice of dress.
BTW…you may not have heard, but the Southwest Airlines Slut Police has struck again:
http://www.nbc6.net/news/14090043/detail.html
Anthony
wow. what a SKANK.
its one thing to have freedom of choice,
but what about the other passengers on the flight? I have a right NOT to see that.
i dont want to see her c*nt or tits on MY flight, and obviously you can from that skirt. so THANKS SOUTHWEST!
Did anyone else note the striking resemblance to Ann Coulter?
But to those who object to a woman showing a little leg, PUT THE BLANKET OVER YOUR EYES! While her outfit might have been considered indecent in the 1950′s, I don’t think we’re in the fifties anymore, Toto. (Leastwise, I hope not. Grew up then. Sucked.)
Holy balls. Nice influx of anti-feminists we got here.
Mariainmass, if *my* immodesty (how do you define that, anyway?) “causes” someone else to “sin,” who’s to blame when a man rapes or assaults a woman wearing long pants and a winter coat? Or a fully-covered woman in the Middle East, for that matter? Or are you under the impression that fully-covered women are never victimized by entitled men?
And fuck you, lg123. What photo are you looking at? I don’t see her “cunt” or tits. I see her chest and legs. What’s indecent about a woman’s chest and/or legs? What’s indecent about a woman’s ENTIRE FUCKING BREAST, for that matter? Check your attitude about women’s bodies. And your use of derogatory language.
Love how you consider any flight you’re on YOUR flight. Maybe some other folks find your appearance offensive on THEIR flights – ever think of that? Though most people aren’t self-absorbed enough to complain or whine about such a thing.
Wow…
I have to say I don’t think I’ve seen this many trolls on this site in one go before…
Seriously, legs are legs. You may find them sexy, but that doesn’t give you the right to demand that women cover them up to save you from your own desires, any more than it gives you the right to demand that a woman take off her trousers so that you can enjoy the view.
Personally, I love bare backs on women, but if I saw a woman in a backless top I would neither consider her “slutty” nor would I presume I had the right to oggle her.
Foot enthusiasts don’t run around demanding that women wear only sensible, fully-covering shoes.
But legs? Sinful, slutty and shameful. But only if we’re talking about women, here.
(And don’t tell me she’s exposing her breasts- her top completely covers that woman’s chest.)
As a born and raised Chicagoan…..best web hosting NEVER fly to Midway! Say it with me: I will not fly to Midway, even if the flight is free. Ok, that’s excessive – what are you, nuts! If it’s free… I’m getting off track.
Back in the day, People Express was the forerunner to Southwest dedicated servers, only much cheaper and even more spartan. If you worked for them, one week you’d be doing reservations, the next week you’d be out on the tarmac with the flashlights guiding the planes to the gate.
I used to fly between NYC and Burlington, VT on my way to Stowe for skiing. Roundtrip fare – and this was the early 80′s: $58. The north terminal at Newark was where you attempted to fly out of. I say “attempted” because there always seemed to be something wrong. Broken seats domain registration, broken plane, out of gas – how does an airport run out of gas? – a pilot quit.
It was “Survivor” long before Mark Burnett got involved.