Ohio bill: Women need men’s permission to have abortions

Oh this is rich. A group of legislators in Ohio are pushing a bill that would give men a say in whether or not a woman can have an abortion.

“This is important because there are always two parents and fathers should have a say in the birth or the destruction of that child,” said [Rep. John] Adams, a Republican from Sidney. “I didn’t bring it up to draw attention to myself or to be controversial. In most cases, when a child is born the father has financial responsibility for that child, so he should have a say.”
As written, the bill would ban women from seeking an abortion without written consent from the father of the fetus. In cases where the identity of the father is unknown, women would be required to submit a list of possible fathers. The physician would be forced to conduct a paternity test from the provided list and then seek paternal permission to abort.

Written notes? Submitting a list of potential fathers? Sometimes I think that anti-choice folks forget that women are, you know, adults.
But seriously here’s the best part of the bill:

Claiming to not know the father’s identity is not a viable excuse, according to the proposed legislation. Simply put: no father means no abortion.

Fuck. You.
But wait, it gets even better. Women would be required to present a police report if they want to “prove” that the pregnancy was a result of rape of incest. Because women can’t be trusted, obviously.
NARAL Pro-Choice Ohio executive director Kellie Copeland says, “This extreme bill shows just how far some of our state legislators are willing to go to rally a far-right base that is frustrated with the pro-choice gains made in the last election…It is completely out of touch with Ohio’s mainstream values. This measure is a clear attack on a woman’s freedom and privacy.” Not to mention our intelligence.
The text of the bill is here. And if you want to contact Rep. Adams, who is sponsoring the bill, all of his info is here.

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349 Comments

  1. SarahMC
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Don’t make me laugh, loser.
    “Male reproductive rights?” Men’s role in reproduction ends when he ejaculates into a woman. After that, his part’s done and the woman bears the entire burden of baby-making.
    Men HAVE reproductive rights. They can choose to protect themselves with a condom. They can choose to abstain. They can choose to have sex only with women they trust. But they don’t want to make the effort. So they carelessly fuck then they complain when things don’t work out they way they’d hoped. Boohoo.
    And it sounds like you’re a winger. You probably think women belong confined to the home, raising the children 24/7 while dad provides nothing more than financial support. Why should that change in the case of a divorce? What’s the big deal? I mean, it’s in the best interest of the child to be raised by the party most “naturally” inclined to care for it, correct? And according to MRA wingers, that’s the woman. Or is this more about sticking it to the bitches than it is about your love for children?

  2. Garak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    Ruffled your feathers did I SarahMC?
    Good, that tells me that I am on solid ground here.
    You laugh at male reproductive rights and that is very telling. You then build a strawman.
    Can you dispute anything I said or would you rather I just write you off as another man hater?

  3. SarahMC
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    I DID dispute what you just said. Men HAVE reproductive rights. Nobody is trying to control men’s bodies. Lucky for you, you live in a country that trusts you with your own reproductive organs. Nobody’s trying to outlaw the condom. They’re cheap and you can get them over the counter.

  4. Garak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Ok, let’s see here:
    They can choose to protect themselves with a condom. [b]Women have more birth control option than men so this option is not male exclusive[/b]
    They can choose to abstain. [b] Women have this option as well[/b]
    They can choose to have sex only with women they trust. [b]Women can choose who the fuck as well[/b]
    Ok, this is where mens options end but for women it is only the beginning.
    So they carelessly fuck then they complain when things don’t work out they way they’d hoped. [b]Women do this as well but women can do a number of things to “fix” it. Morning After pill, abortion, adoption, keep the baby (charging daddy for it of course). [/b]
    Nobody is trying to control men’s bodies.
    [b]I would call being a wage slave to give you money for a decision that was 100% yours is controlling my body. [/b]

  5. SarahMC
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    They can choose to protect themselves with a condom. [b]Women have more birth control option than men so this option is not male exclusive[/b]
    As someone mentioned upthread, if men were truly interested in more birth control options, they’d lobby big Pharma and make their needs known. But they don’t. What do you want women to do about it?
    They can choose to abstain. [b] Women have this option as well[/b]
    Did I say we didn’t?
    They can choose to have sex only with women they trust. [b]Women can choose who the fuck as well[/b]
    Again, did I say we didn’t? But YOU are the one whining about being duped into fatherhood, so it seems perhaps you should choose your fuck partners more wisely.
    Ok, this is where mens options end but for women it is only the beginning.
    Take it up with mother nature. Your beef is with biology. Sorry, but women get pregnant and men don’t.
    So they carelessly fuck then they complain when things don’t work out they way they’d hoped. [b]Women do this as well but women can do a number of things to “fix” it. Morning After pill, abortion, adoption, keep the baby (charging daddy for it of course). [/b]
    Oh boy. That’s because WOMEN ARE THE ONES WHO BECOME PREGNANT. You want to have an abortion? Get knocked up. Good luck with that. And you clearly know nothing about child-support. Guess it’s too much to ask that you’d contribute a fraction of what it costs to keep your kid alive.
    Nobody is trying to control men’s bodies.
    [b]I would call being a wage slave to give you money for a decision that was 100% yours is controlling my body. [/b]
    Your wallet =/= your body. To call a couple hundred dollars a month (if that) wage slavery is ludicrous. Who do you think is paying for the majority of the child’s needs, whilst actually doing the caregiving? WOMEN.
    Wanting to be free to make our own choices in life =/= man-hating. Only if you think you’re entitled to control women could you possibly believe this.

  6. Garak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    As someone mentioned upthread, if men were truly interested in more birth control options, they’d lobby big Pharma and make their needs known. But they don’t. What do you want women to do about it?
    If I not mistaken there is a male pill and it has been held up by opposition from feminist groups. Either way when women need help there are no shortage of men willing to help but then again men aren’t as selfish it seems.
    Again, did I say we didn’t? But YOU are the one whining about being duped into fatherhood, so it seems perhaps you should choose your fuck partners more wisely,
    When a man complains he is whining but when a woman complains (and there is no end where feminism is concerned) it is justified? No wonder the feminist movement is losing disciples.
    Take it up with mother nature. Your beef is with biology. Sorry, but women get pregnant and men don’t.
    LOL, a feminist telling me to take it up with mother nature…that is the double standard of the week. BTW, we are taking it up with Congress instead and even baby steps are still steps. The right to murder a mans child has to be countered somehow.
    Oh boy. That’s because WOMEN ARE THE ONES WHO BECOME PREGNANT. You want to have an abortion? Get knocked up. Good luck with that. And you clearly know nothing about child-support. Guess it’s too much to ask that you’d contribute a fraction of what it costs to keep your kid alive. Your wallet =/= your body. To call a couple hundred dollars a month (if that) wage slavery is ludicrous. Who do you think is paying for the majority of the child’s needs, whilst actually doing the caregiving? WOMEN.
    Tell you what, hand custody of your children (if you have any) over to their father. Then demand that he make visitation a nightmare for you and then report yourself to the Child Support Agency so they can extort money from you under threat of prison. Then we will see how you feel about things..K!
    Note: Even if you do all of these things you will still get out of having your children forcefully taken from you.
    A few hundred dollars huh? Since child alimony is based on a percentage then a few hundred dollars is an inaccurate estimate where many fathers are concerned but I guess 30% of a mans GROSS pay is consistent. Men also don’t get to make up the losses by collecting food stamps, TANF, Medicaid and all the other free goodies that come with motherhood. No men just get to take their remaining 50% (yeah, 20% to taxes to help pay for your extra benefits) and build a new life. Most of the time without the happiness of raising their kids.

  7. SarahMC
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    If I not mistaken there is a male pill and it has been held up by opposition from feminist groups. Either way when women need help there are no shortage of men willing to help but then again men aren’t as selfish it seems.
    Cite your source, please. You are mistaken, in fact. MEN were pooh-poohing the male pill because “eeeww, we’re not going to put hormones in our bodies like women!” Feminists were interested in it, on the other hand. Increased options = good.
    When a man complains he is whining but when a woman complains (and there is no end where feminism is concerned) it is justified? No wonder the feminist movement is losing disciples.
    O RLY? It’s whining because you have the option of changing your behavior and improving your circumstances but it’s easier to leave contraception up to women and not worry about it til it’s too late.
    LOL, a feminist telling me to take it up with mother nature…that is the double standard of the week. BTW, we are taking it up with Congress instead and even baby steps are still steps. The right to murder a mans child has to be countered somehow.
    Quit pretending you give a crap about your kid. You clearly don’t appreciate having to pay for kids when they ARE born, and yet you value them so so much you just have to save them from the evil, aborting women. Which is it?
    And Congress can’t do shit about the fact that women gestate pregnancies. You are attempting to give men control over women’s bodies to “make up” for the fact that men don’t get pregnant.

    Tell you what, hand custody of your children (if you have any) over to their father. Then demand that he make visitation a nightmare for you and then report yourself to the Child Support Agency so they can extort money from you under threat of prison. Then we will see how you feel about things..K!
    Note: Even if you do all of these things you will still get out of having your children forcefully taken from you.
    A few hundred dollars huh? Since child alimony is based on a percentage then a few hundred dollars is an inaccurate estimate where many fathers are concerned but I guess 30% of a mans GROSS pay is consistent. Men also don’t get to make up the losses by collecting food stamps, TANF, Medicaid and all the other free goodies that come with motherhood. No men just get to take their remaining 50% (yeah, 20% to taxes to help pay for your extra benefits) and build a new life. Most of the time without the happiness of raising their kids.
    I thought raising kids was the woman’s job? Unless you’re divorced, then the set-in-stone gender roles change. Interesting. No matter what, the father should have the upper hand – I get it now. I don’t know WTF you’re talking about. Do you even have kids? Or are these just talking points from whichever MRA blog you crawled in here from?

  8. SarahMC
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

    If I not mistaken there is a male pill and it has been held up by opposition from feminist groups. Either way when women need help there are no shortage of men willing to help but then again men aren’t as selfish it seems.
    Cite your source, please. You are mistaken, in fact. MEN were pooh-poohing the male pill because “eeeww, we’re not going to put hormones in our bodies like women!” Feminists were interested in it, on the other hand. Increased options = good.
    When a man complains he is whining but when a woman complains (and there is no end where feminism is concerned) it is justified? No wonder the feminist movement is losing disciples.
    O RLY? It’s whining because you have the option of changing your behavior and improving your circumstances but it’s easier to leave contraception up to women and not worry about it til it’s too late.
    LOL, a feminist telling me to take it up with mother nature…that is the double standard of the week. BTW, we are taking it up with Congress instead and even baby steps are still steps. The right to murder a mans child has to be countered somehow.
    Quit pretending you give a crap about your kid. You clearly don’t appreciate having to pay for kids when they ARE born, and yet you value them so so much you just have to save them from the evil, aborting women. Which is it?
    And Congress can’t do shit about the fact that women gestate pregnancies. You are attempting to give men control over women’s bodies to “make up” for the fact that men don’t get pregnant.

    Tell you what, hand custody of your children (if you have any) over to their father. Then demand that he make visitation a nightmare for you and then report yourself to the Child Support Agency so they can extort money from you under threat of prison. Then we will see how you feel about things..K!
    Note: Even if you do all of these things you will still get out of having your children forcefully taken from you.
    A few hundred dollars huh? Since child alimony is based on a percentage then a few hundred dollars is an inaccurate estimate where many fathers are concerned but I guess 30% of a mans GROSS pay is consistent. Men also don’t get to make up the losses by collecting food stamps, TANF, Medicaid and all the other free goodies that come with motherhood. No men just get to take their remaining 50% (yeah, 20% to taxes to help pay for your extra benefits) and build a new life. Most of the time without the happiness of raising their kids.
    I thought raising kids was the woman’s job? Unless you’re divorced, then the set-in-stone gender roles change. Interesting. No matter what, the father should have the upper hand – I get it now. I don’t know WTF you’re talking about. Do you even have kids? Or are these just talking points from whichever MRA blog you crawled in here from?

  9. SarahMC
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    If I not mistaken there is a male pill and it has been held up by opposition from feminist groups. Either way when women need help there are no shortage of men willing to help but then again men aren’t as selfish it seems.
    Cite your source, please. You are mistaken, in fact. MEN were pooh-poohing the male pill because “eeeww, we’re not going to put hormones in our bodies like women!” Feminists were interested in it, on the other hand. Increased options = good.
    When a man complains he is whining but when a woman complains (and there is no end where feminism is concerned) it is justified? No wonder the feminist movement is losing disciples.
    O RLY? It’s whining because you have the option of changing your behavior and improving your circumstances but it’s easier to leave contraception up to women and not worry about it til it’s too late.
    LOL, a feminist telling me to take it up with mother nature…that is the double standard of the week. BTW, we are taking it up with Congress instead and even baby steps are still steps. The right to murder a mans child has to be countered somehow.
    Quit pretending you give a crap about your kid. You clearly don’t appreciate having to pay for kids when they ARE born, and yet you value them so so much you just have to save them from the evil, aborting women. Which is it?
    And Congress can’t do shit about the fact that women gestate pregnancies. You are attempting to give men control over women’s bodies to “make up” for the fact that men don’t get pregnant.

    Tell you what, hand custody of your children (if you have any) over to their father. Then demand that he make visitation a nightmare for you and then report yourself to the Child Support Agency so they can extort money from you under threat of prison. Then we will see how you feel about things..K!
    Note: Even if you do all of these things you will still get out of having your children forcefully taken from you.
    A few hundred dollars huh? Since child alimony is based on a percentage then a few hundred dollars is an inaccurate estimate where many fathers are concerned but I guess 30% of a mans GROSS pay is consistent. Men also don’t get to make up the losses by collecting food stamps, TANF, Medicaid and all the other free goodies that come with motherhood. No men just get to take their remaining 50% (yeah, 20% to taxes to help pay for your extra benefits) and build a new life. Most of the time without the happiness of raising their kids.
    I thought raising kids was the woman’s job? Unless you’re divorced, then the set-in-stone gender roles change. Interesting. No matter what, the father should have the upper hand – I get it now. I don’t know WTF you’re talking about. Do you even have kids? Or are these just talking points from whichever MRA blog you crawled in here from?

  10. SarahMC
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

    Sorry for the duplicates!!

  11. Garak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

    It is truly a shame SarahMC that you have been brainwashed into believing:
    1) That men don’t love thier kids
    2) That extortion is good as long as it is against men
    3) That men don’t want more control over reproduction. Isn’t that what this whole thread is about? It is you feminists who want to keep that control for yourselves and this thread proves it. However, type male pill into any search engine and read away.
    Have you noticed how feminism has destroyed the “sugar and spice” image that women have had for centuries? Just a thought.

  12. PamelaV
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    I get the distinct feeling Garak is an anti-choice person just coming here to start shit with women and men he is threatened by. The use of “you feminists” and the generalizations that single parenthood is a picnic makes me think he isn’t into logical debate with facts, and certainly doesn’t have the best interest of parents or children in mind. Yeahp, Garack. Every single mother looooves her “free goodies” given by the state and by the poor, mistreated fathers that aren’t there. They love raising children by themselves and buying such lavish things as diapers and food.

  13. anorak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    Ahhh, excuse me, Garak, but I think you’re on the wrong site. This isn’t womanhaters.com, so maybe you should go somewhere where your crazy ranting will be appreciated. SarahMC is making reasonable points (as usual)and she really doesn’t need to waste her time explaining stuff that is self-evident to uneducated misogynists like you.
    Don’t let the door hit ya!

  14. SassyGirl
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    “Have you noticed how feminism has destroyed the “sugar and spice” image that women have had for centuries? Just a thought.”
    Hell yeah and I for one, am damn proud! Who wants to be compared to baking items?
    “Oh, Mister Man, can you please teach me how to be a nice girl? I was listening to those damned feminists and I thought for a moment that it might be possible for me to make my own decisions, go where I want and be who I want, but that isn’t “nice” now is it? Maybe if I quit school and give up my dreams of that damned liberating PhD and stay home to bake cakes and cookies, I can be all “sugar and spice” again, like a good lil’ lady
    Garak, if you could pull your head out of your ass and really read what women are saying, or even, listen to women and pay attention to how they feel and how the system screws them, you might learn something.

  15. Posted August 6, 2007 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    One of the things that stands out most in Garak’s assertions — par for the course when it comes to the “Fathers’ Rights” movement — is this notion of “fairness” when it comes to custody and support. It is hard to avoid the conclusion that these men — who often receive only supervised visitation for good reason — view children (and, often, the women who gave birth to them) as their property, to be “equitably divided” like the house, the car, the stock portfolio, etc.
    The nature of this movement is well documented. Most of the prominent figures in the movement are batterers and sexual abusers who form these organisations to swap tips about how to get around orders of protection (frivolous litigation is the tactic of choice), how to get around child support obligations (filing for joint legal custody and then not exercising physical custody is the most popular method here, since joint legal custody reduces or eliminates child support obligations), and how to use quacks with degrees as “experts” to raise doubt about credible allegations of sex abuse (A certain Dr. Underwager is the authority on this).
    Though, really, none of this is particularly surprising, considering that this is a group of men who love their children so much that they want to get out of paying to support them.

  16. Garak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    Had a nice long response typed out and then it claimed I was not signed in. Anyway, just think about something. Women are not giving the children to fathers and paying child alimony for a reason. That would be because women know they have it made just as it is. What more can you ask? You get the children, free money, government financial benefits and an ego because you THINK you are independant.

  17. anorak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

    Even typepad is against you, Garak.
    Why don’t you take the hint and go away.

  18. Garak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

    Elise,
    If it so well documented then by all means…let’s see it. Until then you are simply trying to shame me into silence. Typical feminst, communist tactic.
    However, shall you wish to play this game we can talk about those feminist leaders who were very vocal man haters. Wanna play that game?

  19. Posted August 6, 2007 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

    If it so well documented then by all means…let’s see it. Until then you are simply trying to shame me into silence. Typical feminst, communist tactic.

    Isn’t that cute? He thinks that I’ll be offended by the “accusation” that I believe that working people should have democratic control over the means of production! That’s just precious!

  20. anorak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, he’s a real charmer alright. Let’s maybe ignore him now.
    At least, I’m gonna ignore him now, but if you’re having fun, go ahead, girl.

  21. Posted August 6, 2007 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, he’s a real charmer alright. Let’s maybe ignore him now.
    At least, I’m gonna ignore him now, but if you’re having fun, go ahead, girl.

    I’m through with him, as well. The entertainment value of the “so stupid it’s funny” stuff wears off pretty quickly.

  22. Garak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    anorak,
    You would like it if I went away wouldn’t you? Bury your heads in the sand, pretend that men have it made then go pick up your government benefits from the mailbox.

  23. Garak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    Very nice Elise, you cannot back up your claims and now you want to “laugh it off”.

  24. Posted August 6, 2007 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

    http://www.gate.net/~liz/fathers/
    Just in case anyone’s interested in a few quotes from the intellectual heavy hitters of the “movement”. The same site has an excellent article on the subject, and a google search of “Father’s Manifesto” will also prove instructive.

  25. Garak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 9:43 pm | Permalink
  26. anorak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    Elise, that’s some freaky shit.
    Mind-boggling, in fact.
    The paedophile bit?
    Ye gads.

  27. SarahMC
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

    What’s this about living off government money? Pardon me, but what the deuce are you talking about?
    I’d also like to see some evidence that feminists opposed the male birth control pill.
    And you’re exactly right, Elise. To a lot of men (particularly MRAs), children are their property. That’s why they mistakenly believe they’re entitled to an “equal say” when it comes to women’s bodies. Because that’s THEIR baby in there! To them, men own women and men own children. Sure, they’ll provide financially for their children, as long as their woman is doing the hands-on child-rearing and is willing to have sex with him when he wants.
    But as soon as the couple splits up, the woman no longer has any right to their children because they are HIS property; she’s just been their caregiver since birth. If, by some mistake, SHE gets custody of the children in a divorce, he’s sure as hell not going to have anything to do with them anymore – in person or financially. Why should he? They’re “stolen property” in his eyes.
    MRA-ism is truly a pathology.

  28. Garak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

    Actually SarahMC,
    It is women who deny fathers visitation most of the time not the other way around.
    When women claim “I should have all the control over the fetus, it is my body” they are the ones claiming the child as their OWN property. Listen to yourselves, there isn’t a big problem with men not letting women see their children but there is a problem in the reverse. Visitation orders not being honored by mothers because she does not think she has to share.
    When a couple splits up it is women who think they own the children and that he has to jump through her hoops (with the help of the court) to get to see his own children.
    If what you are saying were true then why do women get custody 90% of the time?
    Are you seriously so deluded to not see these things?

  29. SarahMC
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    Women get custody more often than men because women SEEK it. They WANT their children. A lot of men just shrug and move on.
    And actually “men not letting women see their children” hardly ever happens because men are so infrequently single dads. Because they don’t want to be.
    Because fetuses are, by definition, within women’s bodies and existing of women’s biological functions, they ARE the woman’s property. In most relationships, the man and woman make decisions about pregnancy together. There’s no need to legislate something like this. You can’t legislate good communication within relationships. All this bill aims to do is to further disempower women who are in unequal relationships already.

  30. SarahMC
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    Now be a good guest and answer our questions instead of deflecting.

  31. Garak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    Actually MRA’s are interested in equality. We don’t want to take away your choices, we want choices for men to match. We want DV support for men too, not just women as stats show that men are victims atleast as much as women are. We want to be treated as equals in family court and we are pushing for Shared Parenting (something NOW is opposing). At no point do we try to take away the rights of women but we want equality for men as well.
    It seems to me that most of you do not believe that fathers want to see their kids and that could not be further from the truth. We are fighting for shared parenting because we have learned that left up to mothers, many children are fatherless. Ever heard of PAS (Parental Alienation Syndrome)? It is now beginning to be considered in court when mothers deny fathers visitation rights and/or demonize the father to the children.
    Before you speak of MRA’s you really need to turn off Oprah, go find some MRA sites and listen, really listen.
    Feminism will ultimately cave in on itself as the genders gap grows wider and wider. I have read articles from women complaining that men don’t want them. I have read articles that warn men away from western women and it is happening. Fewer and fewer women are identifying themselves as feminists.
    Getting angry and throwing insults my way won’t change what’s coming. True equality is coming, something you CLAIM you want…though the closer we get to it..the more you complain about men having too much power.
    So really, go here: http://standyourground.com/forums/index.php?board=3.0 or any number of MRA message boards and learn a little bit. What is the worst that can happen?

  32. SarahMC
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    “…stats show that men are victims atleast as much as women are.”
    Bahh! All these “facts” and no evidence to back it up. You actually expect us to believe that men are victims of DV as often as women?! Of course they’re victims too, but to claim that they’re victimized “at least as often” as women is a joke.
    “We want to be treated as equals in family court and we are pushing for Shared Parenting (something NOW is opposing). At no point do we try to take away the rights of women but we want equality for men as well.”
    You support this Ohio bill, do you not? How is that NOT taking away women’s rights? “Equal rights” does not mean men have an equal right to women’s bodies that women have to their own bodies. That, however, is what you’re advocating.

  33. Posted August 6, 2007 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    Ahh, “parental alienation syndrome [sic]“, a “disorder” rejected by all mental health professional associations, which was dreamed up by a certain Dr. Gardner, who some of you will remember as having said that:

    ”What I am against is the excessively moralistic and punitive reaction that many members of our society have toward pedophiles … (going) far beyond what I consider to be the gravity of the crime.”

    “…there is a bit of pedophilia in every one of us.”

  34. Garak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    Women get custody more often than men because women SEEK it. They WANT their children. A lot of men just shrug and move on.
    When men seek custody it costs alot of money, women win custody for free. Didn’t you know?
    Further, lawyers quickly tell men that unless we can prove the mother unfit the judge will rule in favor of “maternal instinct”.
    False accusations of child molestion and domestic violence are also very common in divorce/custody cases. Restraining orders easily granted (without due process of course) and daddy is lawfully seperated from his children until the trial by which time the children have been in moms custody for xxx amount of time and the restraining order is used as evidence. Remember, this restraining order was never filtered via Due Process of Law but is still used as evidence.
    And actually “men not letting women see their children” hardly ever happens because men are so infrequently single dads. Because they don’t want to be.
    Very untrue. “40% of mothers reported that they had interfered with the non-custodial father’s visitation on at least one occasion, to punish the ex-spouse.” (Source: p. 449, col. II, lines 3-6, (citing Fulton) Frequency of visitation by Divorced Fathers; Differences in Reports by Fathers and Mothers. Sanford Braver et al, Am. J. of Orthopsychiatry, 1991.)
    http://www.childrensjustice.org/stats.htm
    Because fetuses are, by definition, within women’s bodies and existing of women’s biological functions, they ARE the woman’s property. In most relationships, the man and woman make decisions about pregnancy together. There’s no need to legislate something like this. You can’t legislate good communication within relationships. All this bill aims to do is to further disempower women who are in unequal relationships already.

    There we have it, the fetus is a womans property and if a woman can kill the fetus then certainly there is nothing a woman can’t do with HER property. You can’t tell me that after the child is born women don’t still consider the child THEIR property. Of course they do because otherwise they would be losing ownership by giving birth.
    This has already been legislated, it is called Roe v Wade and so now that the law gives women a license to kill at HER discretion..you can’t claim legislation is no longer needed. You say that men and women make these decision together most of the time but what you neglect to say is that it is all up to the woman if she lets him open his mouth.

  35. Garak
    Posted August 6, 2007 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    Here is more information on PAS:
    http://www.fact.on.ca/Info/pas/walsh99.htm
    It seems I am on the “must be approved” list. Knew that was coming, we are in China…right?

  36. SarahMC
    Posted August 7, 2007 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    Garak,
    As you can see, this discussion has been going on since well before you arrived here. Many of your claims have already been debunked upthread. Be a big boy and read through it instead of demanding that we re-hash everything again for your benefit.

  37. Garak
    Posted August 7, 2007 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    Just whatever it takes to not have to back up your claims huh Sarah? Now it is the old “we already debunked everything”.
    I did read most of the thread before posting and I am reminded of something:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjW4i67YC04
    “Woman get’s pregnant she don’t want to hear shit from the man, unless she decides to have the baby then she wants the check”.

  38. Surfwax
    Posted August 7, 2007 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    Logically, there is no situation in which it’s acceptable for a man to decide the fate of a woman’s embryo/fetus/baby. (assuming she is of sound mind and body)
    This bill is an attempt at giving control of one person’s life to another. It is constitutionally, morally, and fundamentally wrong.
    For all the people who complain that males don’t have any say in this issue you are wrong. Dudes have control right from the start. It’s called self control.

  39. Garak
    Posted August 7, 2007 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Not when they are tricked or when contraception fails.
    Tough luck right? I am cool with that so long as tough luck is applied equally. Currently it is not as the pregnancy can be terminated for any reason that SHE deems fit while he is simply stuck with her decision. I wonder how it is that people feel so strongly that a man should never make a decision regarding a womans body but a mans body is of no concern should her decision throw him into 2 decades of servitude.

  40. SarahMC
    Posted August 7, 2007 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    Not so good at reading comprehension, are ya?
    One’s body =/= one’s wallet
    When you are forced to financially support your child (just like women have to), your bodily autonomy is not being violated.
    If it means that much to you, just move out of state. Nobody will come after you; it’ll all be forgotten.

  41. Posted August 7, 2007 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    This brings to mind a little song parody I’m working on right now. Here’s the first verse, which seems to be particularly germane:
    I Am The Very Model of a Modern Men’s Rights Advocate
    I am the very model of a modern Men’s Rights Advocate
    I come with dubious studies, individual and aggregate.
    I know that single motherhood is all about that welfare check.
    (She never woulda left me if she hadn’t heard that bitch-lib dreck).
    And any benefit, you see, to arise from women voting
    Is nonexistent, fabricated, or much too small for noting;
    To hell with feminazis and their talk of “liberation�;
    Are they not free to serve as fodder for our masturbation?!

    Chorus:
    We fear, good sir, that we’re in need of disambiguation;
    Your heartfelt cry for freedom sounds a tad like masturbation!

    The “wage gap� and “pink collar� are just feminazi lies, I say;
    For first they’ll take our hard-earned cash and then they’ll try to turn us gay;
    The world’s quite hostile – this I know – to all manly qualities;
    Beat your wife and you might get done – how’s that for inequality!

  42. SarahMC
    Posted August 7, 2007 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    It’s interesting that this myth of “sex fraud” has become so widespread. Every MRA knows a man who’se been “tricked” into fatherhood. (Just like every pro-lifer knows a woman or 2 who aborted at 7 months in order to fit into a fancy dress.)
    Women everywhere are so desperate to have babies that they’re poking holes in condoms and somehow manipulating men into bed. A couple cases like this get publicized and all of a sudden every man’s a victim of it.
    [But women are rarely victimized by men. Sexual assault & rape are myths. :rolls eyes:]
    If you really don’t want to be responsible for a kid, don’t sleep with women you don’t trust. Don’t let your condoms out of your sight. It’s really not that hard.

  43. Posted August 9, 2007 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    FEMINISM AND COMMUNISM ARE ONE AND THE SAME. MOVE TO NORTH KOREA AND DONT COME BACK.

  44. Posted August 9, 2007 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    FEMINISM AND COMMUNISM ARE ONE AND THE SAME. MOVE TO NORTH KOREA AND DONT COME BACK.

  45. Littlun
    Posted November 15, 2007 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    Plain and simple, I feel that if the woman was trying to be safe and still got pregnant, then she should be allowed to abort. If she’s sleeping around without any sort of protection, she’s having the damn baby.

  46. Littlun
    Posted November 15, 2007 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    Plain and simple, I feel that if the woman was trying to be safe and still got pregnant, then she should be allowed to abort. If she’s sleeping around without any sort of protection, she’s having the damn baby.

  47. Littlun
    Posted November 15, 2007 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    Meeps, sorry about the double post >

  48. enjoygame
    Posted April 21, 2009 at 2:32 am | Permalink
  49. alex denipaul
    Posted July 8, 2009 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    My letter to the MAN who is backing this bill in OH is as follows:
    “I can’t even pretend to type a coherent email about how wrong that bill is because I am just sooooo angry!
    If men don’t want the women they have sex with to have an abortion then they shouldn’t have sex with them. Period. web site design After the sex act, it is the woman’s body that you are tampering with, so it is HER decision whether or not to carry a pregnancy!
    Stop with all of these anti-privacy bills and pay more attention to your own life!”

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