Two clicks to oppose the SD abortion ban

The Sioux Falls Argus Leader is running a poll about whether or not the South Dakota abortion ban should be overturned. Right now it’s split exactly 50/50.
Why not spend 30 seconds to influence the results?
Thanks to Cari for the heads up!

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  1. TheTruth
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Since this is a Sioux Falls news site, and the polling is split 50/50 (not counting the out of state votes that come out from sites like this one soliciting votes)… It seems like there isn’t much of a reason from a democratic standpoint to repeal the law.
    Also, does anyone have any statistics on how many abortions have been performed in S.D. in the last few years? I seem to remember that the number was rediculously low…like 5 or less per year…with only 2 doctors in the state being on record as performing them. Seems to me that this is an example of Democracy in Action…whether or not you agree with the citizens in this states decision is immaterial…I’m sure that S.D. like many other places contains more women than men, it seems that more women in S.D. are pro-life, as opposed to pro-choice.

  2. Posted May 31, 2006 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Actually, since we collected 38,000 signatures with such ease, and since pro-choice activism has exploded since the ban passed – I’d say more women in SD are pro-choice.
    The Argus Leader poll is never an accurate reflection of anything. A great deal of anti-choice people – some of whom are friends of mine – oppose the ban. What’s happening with the poll is that various groups are trying to get the message out to their members to go to the site and make it look like SD feels a certain way about a certain issue. So what it reflects is how successful the effort is to get people to the site.
    And frankly, the pro-choice community is celebrating today!

  3. TheTruth
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    If that is in fact true, I’d expect that it will be reflected in the next statewide elections. After all, that IS how democracy works.
    I’d still be interested in hearing the statistics as to how many abortions have been performed over the last few years.

  4. Posted May 31, 2006 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    Thank you for reminding me how democracy works.
    Do you need to be reminded how research works? The numbers you are looking for are easily accessible if you are willing to do a little legwork. Try Guttmacher, SD Dept. of Health, etc. The number of abortions in a state in a given year is a matter of public record.

  5. TheTruth
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    Are you going to teach me how research works?
    We never covered it at the over-crowded public school that I graduated from. I wasn’t priveleged enough to be able to afford “Higher Education”, and my family thought it would be a horrible idea to take out a education loan, because of the huge interest rates and the fact that as opposed to gaining poor people access to education they are otherwise unable to afford, in practice they actually tend to enslave and cripple poorer people economically much like sharecropping did in the 19th century.(According to the NBC Nightly News reports my family watched) If you don’t have the desire or the time to educate me, that is alright with me… I understand that you have a lot of responsibilities and not very much time.
    I don’t know what Guttmacher is or where to find the SD Dept. of Health, etc. But, I imagine that maybe a search engine like could help me?
    Thank you for your thoughtful and compassionate response.

  6. katie
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    if anyone has read the rest of the argus….you will see its not all good.

  7. TheTruth
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    I wonder how many feminists are opposed to the use of abortion as a contraceptive?
    I know I am, and am curious as to how many others are like me. It seems to me, like most people assume feminism=supporting the use of abortion as a contraceptive…and I know that I CAN’T be alone.

  8. Jenna
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    TheTruth: what do you mean, abortion used as a contraceptive? You do realize abortion is expensive and very uncomfortable. I’ve never heard of someone choosing to go in for an abortion every month. Do you know someone like this?
    Yeah. Don’t think so. Just spewing the same old tired pseudo-christian moron nonesense.
    Oh, and TheTruth. If you can figure out how to post comments, you can damn well figure out how to use google. Don’t use the class card as an excuse for your intentional ignorance and laziness.

  9. TheTruth
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Jenna: The article that Katie linked above states that the female health clinic would feature “emergency contraceptives”. Since I took “emergency contraceptive” to mean “abortion”, since the clinic would in fact provide abortion services, I then deduced that some people must refer to abortion using the more veiled “emergency contraception”. I do not support the use of abortion as an “emergency contraception” of any kind, and I was simply asking to hear from others who feel the same way as me.
    As far as the research comment is concerned, it was a tongue in cheek reaction to a condescending response. I simply remarked that the actual statistics interested me, and I received a very condescending response. I’ve always been under the impression that there are no stupid questions, only stupid responses…perhaps that type of ideology is misguided.
    I have never known anyone that has gone every month for an abortion. I have known women that have used abortion as an emergency contraceptive. While I haven’t agreed with their choices, I have always supported them. I have also known women that have been tempted to use abortion as an emergency contraceptive, and have seen them decide to take their offspring to full-term.
    As far as “spewing the same old tired pseudo-christian nonsense” is concerned. Where have you seen me claim to be a Christian? Would a Christian openly support pornography? I would be quite surprised if my religious views were in line with the teachings of the Christian Orthodoxy. I would even be surprised if my morals “mimmicked” Christianity.
    Thank you for your scolding once again. I appreciate your warm embrace of challenging ideologies.

  10. Jessica
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    TheTruth, emergency contraception is actually kind of a high dose of birth control pills that a woman can take within 72 hours of unprotected sex that will prevent a pregnancy–not end one. For more info, you should check out Planned Parenthood.

  11. Katie
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    seriously the truth….i dont know a single feminist that supports abortion as a form of contraception. maybe you should just suck it up and pay those interest rates bc you are disturbingly ignorant. if you have enough money and time to have a computer, the internet, and the ability to harass us on here, the you have the ability, money, and time to research feminism. have you ONCE heard a woman on here say they support abortion as a form of birth control?
    most women who have had abortions that i know were using contraception. most feminist support a woman’s right to choose under any circumstance, but most would not agree with the idea that a woman can be irresponsible regarding birth control and have abortions left and right if she happens to get pregnant.
    also, in SD they have outlawed abortion even in instances of rape and incest, and i dont know how a person who claims to be human can support a policy like that. what pro lifers are also doing are trying to undermine contraception which makes NO sense, seeing as how it is clearly much better if we prevent unwanted pregnancies to begin with.
    i just dont understand how you can be so thickheaded and blind to the truth, unless you just dont want to see it

  12. Katie
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    yes emergency contraceptives are not abortion. abortion is not an emergency contraceptive because contraceptive means not allowing conception to take place. if you are having an ABORTION it means CONTRACEPTION has already taken place. EC and RU-486 are two entirely different things. maybe you should spend less time on here annoying people and more time googling some terms.
    and yes, dont use the class BS.

  13. TheTruth
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    Thanks, Jessica, I am aware of that type of emergency contraception.
    What I am confused about is whether or not Ms. Fire Thunder’s description of the Women’s Health Clinic was trying to disguise the fact that abortions would be available there, or if the abortion issue is a red herring and abortions will not be available at her clinic.
    And I’m aware that abortion can not be technically considered “contraception” because “contraception” prevents “conception” and after “conception” terminating a pregnancy is considered “abortion”. The use of language in the article linked above confused me is all.

  14. TheTruth
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    Katie, so you are in favor of using abortion as a way to supplement contraception?
    I consider that use of abortion (to supplement contraception when contraception fails) as using abortion as a form of contraceptive.
    And yes, I am politically against South Dakotas policy…however, I am a states rights advocate at the same time. While I know that simply saying SD’s policy is “not my problem” is irresponsible, I do have faith in their political system to amend what I see as a rediculous policy. I also think that since it is a South Dakotan issue and not an issue involving my home state, I have no responsibility nor any right to stick my fat head into their political sphere. If they ask me for my opinion as an outsider, I would give it, but I don’t think it’s my place to tell them how to run their state.
    2 additional inflammatory cents!

  15. Posted May 31, 2006 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    The Truth – the tone of my response to you was prompted by your comment “that IS how democracy works.” If you are disheartened by the responses you are receiving, you might want to examine the tone of your own comments. I apologize if I misread you. You can easily google “Alan Guttmacher” and “South Dakota Department of Health” to look for the statistics you are interested in.
    I don’t know where you are posting from, but I’m in SD, and most of us feel that what has happened here has been a sad example of democracy NOT operating as it should. I’ve written about this:
    I have watched anti-choice people manipulate the political process – and the research process, laying aside scientific data because it disagreed with their conclusions – in order to fashion this ban. So I am especially sensitive to what comes across as someone lecturing me about what is and what isn’t democracy. What happened here was not democratic decision-making, but hopefully we are on the way back to a democracy. (and by the way – the abortion ban is unconstitutional, and its proponents knew that – that’s why they did it: to challenge Roe v. Wade.)

  16. Katie
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    supplement would mean “in addition to”. if a person gets pregnant and they were being careful and doing their best to avoid getting pregnant in the first place then yes i do support them getting an abortion. especially if they are 21 years old and it wouldnt do anyone any good to have that child.
    i dont think i have to explain myself when it comes to rape, incest, or the mothers life is in danger.

  17. Jenna
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    I consider that use of abortion (to supplement contraception when contraception fails) as using abortion as a form of contraceptive.
    So, you are going to view abortion as contraception with no proof that it is and without making an argument that it is. If abortion is used to discontinue an unwanted pregancy that resulted because of failed BC, or lack of access to good BC, or pure ignorance, that isn’t using abortion as contraception. Got it? It isn’t that hard to understand. Abortion as contraception would be going in every month and getting a D&C just in case. That doesn’t happen. Therefore, abortion is not equal to contraception.
    As for the pCm stuff, I didn’t say you WERE a pCm. I said you are using their words.
    And I fail to see how even those people who support state’s rights would support the state’s right to determine the legality of a private medical procedure. Baffling.

  18. TheTruth
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    PlainsFeminist-I’m sorry that I caused the original offense by emphasizing the word IS, that was counterproductive, you’re right. Thanks for the links, I do plan on reading them and researching more. I just find the abortion argument to be a personally divisive argument for me as a feminist. Just because I am a feminist does not mean I toe a strict Pro-Choice line, and the appearance of an assumption that I do and have to as a feminist really gets under my skin. I hope you understand.
    Katie- I understand your point, and I disagree. I think in the rare instances that contraceptions fail (i.e. the pill fails, the shot fails, vasectomies fail…etc.) than I think that the mother should take the child to full term. While I know you disagree and argue that it “inconveniences” a 21 year olds life, I think the benefits far outweigh the negatives. If the woman does not desire to raise a child, there are many adoption options and agencies devoted to placing healthy newborns in loving families of all races (and even gay families!).
    On the other hand I do agree in emergency abortions for medical reasons and in the cases of rape or incest. You have no argument from me there.
    And yes, Supplement does mean “in addition to”. I do not support abortions in the case of failed contraceptives. That is exactly what I was saying. Sorry if I was “obtuse”.

  19. Katie
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    while clearly i am on your side, i would have to say that going every month to get a D&C would not equal contrception. I think what he means is that people just have sex, and if they get pregnant they have an abortion. he means “as a form of birth control” even though he is not being smart and using “contraception”. either way, MOST abortions are not bc the woman is too lazy to protect herself and she just goes out and gets an abortion whenever she gets pregnant. i DONT support that but it doesnt happen often at all.

  20. Jenna
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    I think in the rare instances that contraceptions fail (i.e. the pill fails, the shot fails, vasectomies fail…etc.) than I think that the mother should take the child to full term. While I know you disagree and argue that it “inconveniences” a 21 year olds life, I think the benefits far outweigh the negatives.
    What benefits? The benefits of bringing an unwanted child into a world that has far too many people to begin with? The costs associated with proper pre-natal and post-natal care? The costs associated with giving birth? The risks to the mother’s life and health? What benefits, exactly?
    And while you may, personally, feel that a woman who becomes pregnant by accident should bear a child, that is far different than forcing a woman who has become pregnant to bear a child. One is your feeling. The other is invading and controlling another human’s physical being. You are free to live your life however you choose, so long as you do no harm to anyone else. You are not free to impose your opinion of moral behavior on someone via legislation. See the distinction?

  21. Katie
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    you are right, as a white, adopted child myself i am fully aware there ARE plenty of adoption options. UNLESS you are anything BUT white. it’s sad, but true. what about the poor black girl whose boyfriend is leaving her and doesnt have the support of a family bc of institutionalized racism and being a product of the ghetto? then what? you still think she should carry the kid to term?

  22. TheTruth
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    Katie, your point makes the assumption that their are no middle class (and above) blacks that desire to and have the means to adopt a child. There actually are. I find that point to be awkwardly and backhandedly racist (at best).

  23. Katie
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    No need to be condescending bc I do know there are many middle class black families who have the MEANS to adopt a child. Most middle class black families, just like most middle class white families, dont end up adopting children. I in no way agree with the realities of this particular situation (seeing as how I plan to adopt children -black, white, asian i dont care they are children in need of a home and I was fortunate enough to be given one I want to do the same for another child), however, they are just that, realities. In fact, I would argue that the very people who argue for adoption being an option are the LAST people who would adopt any baby, much less one outside of their own race. It’s a proven fact that liberals adopt in higher numbers than conservatives.
    Don’t pull the race card on me, it’s not going to work and it shows a sad lack of ability to form a coherent argument.

  24. Raging Moderate
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    “most feminist support a woman’s right to choose under any circumstance, but most would not agree with the idea that a woman can be irresponsible regarding birth control and have abortions left and right if she happens to get pregnant.”
    I’m confused by this statement. If you disagree that a woman can “have abortions left and right”, do you think that there should be a limit to the number of abortions a woman can have?
    As I am pro-abortion, I would not view a woman who had one abortion any differently than a woman who had 10 (I personally know a woman who had 3).

  25. TheTruth
    Posted May 31, 2006 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Katie, do not accuse me of pulling out the race card, when it is in fact you who pulled it out in the first place.
    Also, try not to generalize. You have no statistics concerning pro-adoptionists and their propensity to or not adopt children. The only couples that I know who have adopted children are actually pro-lifers, and they actually decided to adopt by choice (they decided that since they have been given privelege in this world, that it’s their responsibility to share that privelege with others as opposed to bringing children into this world to hog the privelege to themselves.) Of course I am young, and as I grow older, I expect to know many people of various religious affiliations who will have adopted children. I am definitely not trying to say that all couples who adopt are in similar circumstances at all.
    Because we disagree is no reason to start discussing hypotheticals that may or may not be true. I don’t think it furthers you’re argument at all.

  26. Posted May 31, 2006 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    Speaking of spending thirty seconds on something, the Louisiana house right now is voting on SB33, a trigger law that would ban abortion, with exceptions only for life of the mother or in the case of “permanent impairment of a life sustaining organ or organs.” They have just rejected amendments for exceptions for rape and incest, as well as several amendments related to providing emergency contraception. It’s a fucking train wreck, ‘scuse my french, and it’s going to pass. I’ve never been so depressed in my life.

  27. Posted May 31, 2006 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    Now it’s Yes 55% to No 45%.

  28. Posted May 31, 2006 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    “I consider that use of abortion (to supplement contraception when contraception fails) as using abortion as a form of contraceptive.”
    Contraception, by definition, prevents conception. Abortion, by definition, terminates a pregnancy, which kind of requires that conception have already taken place.
    “Also, does anyone have any statistics on how many abortions have been performed in S.D. in the last few years? I seem to remember that the number was rediculously low…like 5 or less per year…with only 2 doctors in the state being on record as performing them . . . It seems that more women in S.D. are pro-life, as opposed to pro-choice.”
    Or maybe more women in South Dakota can’t get the money together to afford the abortion . . . not to mention traveling to the one clinic that performs them, taking off work for not only travel but an extra day off for the mandatory waiting period, arranging child care, et cetera.
    Before you can consider people’s inclinations, you need to take their abilities into account. A high percentage of starving children in a third-world country does not mean they’re all suffering from anorexia.

  29. Posted May 31, 2006 at 10:49 pm | Permalink

    More bad news, incidentally:
    The rest of the people in charge of Pine Ridge Reservation are somewhat hostile to the idea of the place becoming an island of freedom in a sea of misogyny.

  30. Dykonoclast
    Posted June 1, 2006 at 12:23 am | Permalink

    It was 800 abortions in South Dakota a year.
    And the poll is now 43 – 56%

  31. ts
    Posted June 1, 2006 at 12:59 am | Permalink

    I will fight for the right for a woman’s right to have an abortion whenever she choices. I will fight for a woman’s right to have as many abortions as she choices. I will fight for a woman’s right to use abortion as birth control. And I will fight for a woman’s right to never have an abortion if she doesn’t want.
    I don’t have to agree with a woman’s decision. I can don’t have to have to want to have an abortion myself. I will support, campaign and advocate for a woman to have access to reliable and safe birth control so that she doesn’t have to have an abortion. But I sure as hell will fight for a woman’s right to have an abortion under any and all circumstances that are of her choosing. That’s what it means for me to be a feminist.

  32. big annie
    Posted June 1, 2006 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    I recently read (maybe an interview with President Cecilia Fire Thunder in which she talks about abortion methods used by early Native American women.
    Isn’t it time we (women) got serious about finding ways that we can terminate unwanted pregnancies ourselves?
    I’ve read about menstrual extraction devices, pennyroyal tea, etc.
    Can we band together and financially support research into safe and user-friendly abortion methods?
    We can send a man to the moon–why can’t we provide women with the knowledge to control their reproductive systems?
    We can’t depend on the government–we need to do it ourselves.
    If anyone knows of an organization that is working toward this end, please let us know. I’ll gladly send a check to support their efforts.

  33. Posted June 1, 2006 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    What you anti-choicers aren’t thinking about is the future. Think about it. It’s 2008 and abortion is illegal. A 15 year old girl gets raped, has an abortion, and is sent to juvenile hall until she’s 18. Maybe the illegal abortion punctured her uterus and the prosecution confiscated and used it as material evidence in the trial against her. Or a woman is thinking about having an abortion, and her boyfriend calls the authorities, who shackle her to her bed for the remainder of her pregnancy, grant custody of the baby to the father, and jail her after the baby is born. That’s what the future would look like if abortion were illegal. How are we going to prosecute women and girls who’ve decided they weren’t in a position to carry a baby to term? How are we going to do that in a society where many pharmacists refuse to dispense emergency contraception for “moral” reasons, even though it prevents HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ABORTIONS EACH YEAR?
    I’m not going to go around celebrating abortion like it’s the greatest thing in the world or the apex of feminist achievement or anything, but it needs to be legal AND safe because the alternative will hurt more women and babies. Just look at El Salvador, where abortion is illegal, and women, many of them mothers, are jailed for up to thirty years for their choice not to carry their pregnancy to term. It’s sickening and sad.
    I am an animal rights activist and value life in all of its phases and all its incarnations–so I understand how easy it is to let the pro-lifers pull at your heartstrings with tales of abortions-gone-wrong and so-called “partial birth” abortions, but you need to understand that feminists aren’t being flippant about abortion, either. It’s a serious procedure–which is why it needs to be kept legal so that it’s only done by professionals who can honor a woman’s often very difficult choice to terminate her pregnancy. The alternative is just…horrible.

  34. katie
    Posted June 1, 2006 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    personally, if a woman has had 10 abortions, i would view her as horribly irresponsible and careless, unless of course it was the result of something against her control. what i meant raging moderate is that i dont think most feminists would support abortion AS a sole means of birth control. however, you wont see me (any other pro choice feminist) fighting for a limit on abortions. i might not agree with someone who has 10 abortions, but i will fight for her right to do so. its a slippery slope once you start putting a number on something like that.

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